Black IPA....oxymoron?

cheezydemon3 said:

.............I can't tell if you have the right thread or not.....but that is cool!

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Too many brews between reading and typing. When someone posted, about the use of all northwest hops, I jumped straight to where they are grown. :cross:

WIP said:

Too many brews between reading and typing. When someone posted, about the use of all northwest hops, I jumped straight to where they are grown. :cross:

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Lol, no problem.

Guess this a bump, someone asked the same question, I see no need for further discussion.

I am drinking my first one now. It has the mouthfeel of an IPA the hoppiness of an IPA, but a strong roasted/coffee flavor.

I'm still not sure about mine.

I think I want to make two new batches, one with a little less of the dark/roasted grains, and another with less hops.

I still don't like the name. I was discussing the "style" the other day with a local brewer while sharing some Stone Sublimely Self Righteous. If brewed right with Sinmar or Carafa III, I suspect in a blind tasting, I couldn't tell the difference between it and a regular IPA.

Anyway, I suspect the style will eventually morph into something called American Strong, or American Strong Dark. I just don't think Black IPA is the appropriate term, since it is indeed not PALE.

I agree on the name. Cascadian Dark, or American Dark Ale sound good.

Mine however, You can taste the difference from a regular IPA.

ADA gets my vote.

India no longer has anything to do with it.

dunnright00 said:

I agree on the name. Cascadian Dark, or American Dark Ale sound good.

Mine however, You can taste the difference from a regular IPA.

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I'm calling mine a Cascadian Dark Ale. I think it just sounds so smooth. I think I could make a VERY cool label with a name like that.

I modified an IPA recipe I was planning to brew to include chocolate and carafa II grains in an attempt to make one of these. I prefer Cascadia Dark Ale, as I live in the Republic of Cascadia and if indeed PNW brewers invented this then let's give them their props!

Here's the recipe I made up... centennial hops to represent washington, willamette and cascade hops represent oregon, and the california yeast since northern cali is part of Cascadia. I suppose I need to represent BC in there somehow but for now this works. Any constructive feedback on the recipe appreciated, it's been fermenting for 6 days now still very active. Looks fairly dark but I'm not sure if I quite got it dark enough.

7.5 lbs light DME (3 lbs. at start of boil, 4.5 at end)
12oz. victory
12oz. crystal 60L
6oz carafa II
6oz chocolate

2oz centennial 60
1oz centennial 30
1oz centennial 20
1.5oz cascade 15
1oz cascade flameout
1oz willamette flameout
1oz cascade dry
1oz willamette dry

Pitched 2 vials WL001 California Ale
OG: 1.077
Est. FG: 1.017
ABV: 7.8%
Color: 27 SRM
74 IBU
(SRM and IBU calculations by recipator)

Plenty of breweries refer to them as IBAs, and while the "I" is a misnomer, it is the same with the IIPA, as well. It is just easier for people to understand what an IBA is than a Cascadian Dark Ale. Sounds like an elitist bunch of crap to me.

damdaman said:

Here's the recipe I made up... centennial hops to represent washington, willamette and cascade hops represent oregon, and the california yeast since northern cali is part of Cascadia.

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Lovin' the PNW love The regional breakdown is brilliant and I love this idea of incorporating ingredients from all around "Cascadia" for a Cascadian Dark. Might have to convert this to AG and brew my own!

Keep us posted and let us know how it turns out!

Anyone try the new Widmer Pitch Black? Oxymoron or not it is pretty tasty. I might have to brew one of these up. J

Has anyone tried the bashah? The Stone/Brew Dog collaboration.
They call it the Black Belgian Style Double India Pale Ale.

Semantics or not, it's a tasty beer!!

Edit: Funny, I didn't read Livendadream's post above. Wasn't trying to copy or mimic or anything....
weird..

paint_it_black said:

Lovin' the PNW love The regional breakdown is brilliant and I love this idea of incorporating ingredients from all around "Cascadia" for a Cascadian Dark. Might have to convert this to AG and brew my own!

Keep us posted and let us know how it turns out!

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Thanks man, lemme know if you do convert it to AG as I plan to give it a try someday. Still having plenty of fun with extracts though.

UH MAY ZING!

I dry hopped about a quart of one of my oatmeal stouts with about .5 oz (I know...) of Palisade hops, just 'cuz I got em cheap.

While I wouldn't recommend such a hap hazard approach, I was amazed by the taste that came out in those 3 bottles. They had the standard roasty yet totally drinkable taste you expect from an Oatmeal Stout, but had an amazing fruity aroma and flavor that was really surprising.

I've never had a CDA/BIPA/IBA/&c.

But my interest is piqued...

I always like the Dogfish head Indian Brown Ale, it is all i know of this style.

I've had both the Pitch Black and Dogzilla by Laughing Dog. Widmer actually did a good job with this one- I'm impressed. Being from Vancouver (WA) I also prefer the term Cascadian Dark. The really weird part for me is that I don't really like IPAs at all, but I am a big fan of the Cascadian Darks.

I just received my mini-mash Black IPA (Cascadian Dark Ale) kit from AHS today! I bought it on the hope that it tastes like Stone's Sublimely Self Righteous. If it comes close, I'll be in home brew heaven

i like the name Black IPA personally. the oxymoronic nature of it, i think, was part of the whole genesis of the style to begin with.

stupid question.

for purposes of competition... what BJCP category would this be?
Thinking 23 Specialty.

not like I'd ever make and enter a NW beer or anything

damdaman said:

I prefer Cascadia Dark Ale, as I live in the Republic of Cascadia and if indeed PNW brewers invented this then let's give them their props!

Here's the recipe I made up... centennial hops to represent washington, willamette and cascade hops represent oregon, and the california yeast since northern cali is part of Cascadia.

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spooky. we think very similarly.

Imperial Black Ale

babalu87 said:

Imperial Black Ale

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This, or Imperial Dark Ale.

As a resident of the Republic of Cascadia I'm biased...CDA it is for me...I've seen this "Imperial" Dark/Black/etc Ale mentioned before..What's so "Imperial" about it? Trying to understand where that one is coming from...

Chicken...Specialty it is for the BJCP style. But make sure you put that it's a Cascadian Dark Ale. If the BJCP sees more and more of these it will help the style to become "official"

Kilted Brewer said:

As a resident of the Republic of Cascadia I'm biased...CDA it is for me...I've seen this "Imperial" Dark/Black/etc Ale mentioned before..What's so "Imperial" about it? Trying to understand where that one is coming from...

Chicken...Specialty it is for the BJCP style. But make sure you put that it's a Cascadian Dark Ale. If the BJCP sees more and more of these it will help the style to become "official"

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cool.
I made one of these a year ago, just because I was bored and had some black patent laying around. Surfing some PDX beer blogs, I have seen that it is indeed a growing style. I have a batch getting ready now alongside a batch of American Brown Ale.

I did a batch of Black Wit last year as well. I might have to revisit it.

Kilted Brewer said:

As a resident of the Republic of Cascadia I'm biased...CDA it is for me...I've seen this "Imperial" Dark/Black/etc Ale mentioned before..What's so "Imperial" about it? Trying to understand where that one is coming from...

Chicken...Specialty it is for the BJCP style. But make sure you put that it's a Cascadian Dark Ale. If the BJCP sees more and more of these it will help the style to become "official"

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Not to get too much into naming conventions, but I highly doubt this style will get officially named "Cascadian" by the BJCP. As more brewers and breweries start making them over the years, I'm sure the eventual name will turn out to be more along the lines of "American Dark Ale". Most beer names try to describe the type of beer. "Cascadian" is nowhere close to a description. American would account for high amounts of American hops. Dark Ale would designate a relatively clean ale using a clean American yeast.

I just had some black ipa at a local brewpub in Rochester NY, very yummy, hoppy but strong roasted flavors too, I'm guessing a lot of black patent malt, but wow, so good.



Their Saison isn't much to complain about either

Edcculus said:

As more brewers and breweries start making them over the years, I'm sure the eventual name will turn out to be more along the lines of "American Dark Ale". Most beer names try to describe the type of beer. "Cascadian" is nowhere close to a description. American would account for high amounts of American hops. Dark Ale would designate a relatively clean ale using a clean American yeast.

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localization perhaps.
There is a term for localized wine that escapes me... terroir or some such.

Terroir means terror, territoire means territory, in french at least

Terroir is really a term in wine making to designate how the earth literally effects the taste of specific varietals of grapes. The closest thing to Terroir in beer would be Belgian Lambic breweries. So far, only Sierra Nevada is doing a total Estate beer.

As much as I would like to see CDA be used for this, I think that widmer ruined that opportunity with the pitch black IPA. A Portland brewery didn't even use the term cascadia.

Edcculus said:

Terroir is really a term in wine making to designate how the earth literally effects the taste of specific varietals of grapes. The closest thing to Terroir in beer would be Belgian Lambic breweries. So far, only Sierra Nevada is doing a total Estate beer.

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thanks.
I'm sure if I didn't have a couple of pints in me, I'd remember the exact term I was looking for.

thataintchicken said:

thanks.
I'm sure if I didn't have a couple of pints in me, I'd remember the exact term I was looking for.

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No worries. I've had a few also, so I'm feeling a little fiesty. I'm from the exact opposite end of the US (Charleston SC). So whats with this "Cascadian" moniker? Something to do with the Cascades? Northwestern US? Just don't get it entirely. Sounds like some Tolkein ****.

Edcculus said:

Not to get too much into naming conventions, but I highly doubt this style will get officially named "Cascadian" by the BJCP. As more brewers and breweries start making them over the years, I'm sure the eventual name will turn out to be more along the lines of "American Dark Ale". Most beer names try to describe the type of beer. "Cascadian" is nowhere close to a description. American would account for high amounts of American hops. Dark Ale would designate a relatively clean ale using a clean American yeast.

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Just to play with this a little...How many INDIA Pale Ale's are brewed in India? How many RUSSIAN Imperial Stouts are brewed in Russia?

Cascadian describes the region in which the style was developed and hopefully refined. It also reflects the hops used in the brew (Northwest Hops used).

Chicken is on the right track...It's like an appellation in the wine world. I think CDA does much more for the history, sparks conversation, and doesn't sound "oxymoronic" like Black IPA.

Taken from a press release from Abram Goldman-Armstrong:

an alliance of militant Northwest hop flavors as powerful as Cascadia's coniferous forests, and roasty malts as black as the rubber boots Cascadians don from September to June, (and brewers wear year round).

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jmo88 said:

As much as I would like to see CDA be used for this, I think that widmer ruined that opportunity with the pitch black IPA. A Portland brewery didn't even use the term cascadia.

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Our Brewmasters' Release - Pitch Black IPA is a Pacific Northwest twisted tribute to an IPA style of beer. It is almost a traditional IPA but it is instead brewed to the emerging style of Cascadian Dark.

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Again, stolen from another source, but it's better than I'd do on my own:

A Cascadian Almanac:
Boundaries: Cascadia stretches from the redwood forests of Northern California to the craggy coastal islands of northern British Columbia and east to the foothills of the Rocky Mountains.

Flag: a Douglas Fir rampant on a horizontal tri-color of Blue, white, and green
Official Animal: Chinook salmon.
Official Tree: Western Red Cedar
National Costume: Rubber boots, blue jeans, t-shirt, hoodie. Carhartts, polar fleece, and gore-tex also figure prominently in Cascadian attire.

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Kilted Brewer said:

It's like an appellation in the wine world.

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thats the term I was looking for.
I blame the yummy milk stout and it's vocabulary limiting properties.

Kilted Brewer said:

Just to play with this a little...How many INDIA Pale Ale's are brewed in India? How many RUSSIAN Imperial Stouts are brewed in Russia?

Cascadian describes the region in which the style was developed and hopefully refined. It also reflects the hops used in the brew (Northwest Hops used).

Chicken is on the right track...It's like an appellation in the wine world. I think CDA does much more for the history, sparks conversation, and doesn't sound "oxymoronic" like Black IPA.

Taken from a press release from Abram Goldman-Armstrong:

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Both India Pale Ale and Russian Imperial Stout were both terms used to describe beers developed in Britian for export to those specific markets. IPA for exprot to India, and RIS for export to the Russian Imperial family. They do not reflect the region in which they were developed. I've said all along that "Black IPA" is stupid.

National Costume: Rubber boots, blue jeans, t-shirt, hoodie. Carhartts, polar fleece, and gore-tex also figure prominently in Cascadian attire.

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Minus the rubber boots, I don't see any difference in the Appalachia.

Ah ha!!! But Appalachia didn't come up with the style!!!!

Cascadia. I think it will pick up. Sort of the way that German beers aren't brewed exclusively in Germany, but with german hops and other german characteristics.