Fellow homebrewers, meet my new beer engine . . .

I had a pulled ale a few years ago in Ann Arbor, and it (They, actually) was good, but I'd prefer to have my beer cold and fairly carbed. The place in AA had their casks in the basement and they had several styles. I wish I could remember the name of the place!

I am interested in the history and novelty of the thing.

Homercidal said:

I had a pulled ale a few years ago in Ann Arbor, and it (They, actually) was good, but I'd prefer to have my beer cold and fairly carbed. The place in AA had their casks in the basement and they had several styles. I wish I could remember the name of the place!

I am interested in the history and novelty of the thing.

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Arbor Brewing Company most likely. Great beer!

Homercidal said:

I had a pulled ale a few years ago in Ann Arbor, and it (They, actually) was good, but I'd prefer to have my beer cold and fairly carbed. The place in AA had their casks in the basement and they had several styles. I wish I could remember the name of the place!

I am interested in the history and novelty of the thing.

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I would guess it was Ashley's: http://www.ashleys.com/ I know they've done casks and firkins in the past, and I just got an email about a firkin event in the next month or two.

This is an awsome looking pump. Looks to work pretty good too! I'd like to make one. Does anyone have the plans for this still?

I'm bumping this up (Thanks Ryan) becasue I'm trying to come up with something like this that looks like it would be used in the late 1800's at a vintage Base Ball game... I'm hoping SOMEONE has the 2 byo articles that supposedly contain plans for a beer engine-the May 1997 or The January 2005 issues.

Or any other ideas...

Please take a look at my thread to get an idea of what I'm talking about...

Thanks!

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=65335

I have the byo magazine issue from 2005. PM me and i can get you a scan of it this weekend. I will say the article is a little weak, it talkes more about the box construction than anything else. But anyway, I can get it for you.

Mike

How do Pubs keep up their beer engines? Do they self drain?

This thread was inspirational. What an easy solution that will make me happy. I believe this is the best way to drink a beer hands down. When I lived in the bay area I drank cask conditioned ales every time I went to Magnolias or the Toronado. Now that I'm in Eugene, forget about it, I don't know of a single place that serves them(it is possible there is some place here I don't know about). I must make a version of this sometime soon. I would probably use a smaller vessel than my corny keg just because I would rather just cellar a couple of gallons, since I couldn't drink a full corny fast enough except if I had a party.

thanks!

This looks awesome!!!

Here is my idea.... taking an idea from this thread that discusses the 5L mini-kegs.

I would like to cask condition in these 5L mini-kegs and serve them with a pump system similar to the one described in this thread.

My idea is to take the extra mini/dorm fridge I have laying around, and convert it to a stand along mini-beer-engine. I would serve out of the 5L kegs so I wouldn't have to worry about oxidation as I would drink the keg within a week or so. So here are some pics to help....





I would mount the pump on top of the fridge and keep the kegs in the fridge.

My question is this: How do you maintain carbonation in the kegs while htey are on tap? I think I will need to make some kind of a tapper for the kegs that has a dip tube to the bottom of the keg, for the beer to be pumped from, and a breather to prevent excessive off gassing.

Any suggestions or ideas on how to make the tapper would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers

With a little searching I found this article:

BYO - Will using a beer engine result in flat homebrew?

It would seem that a traditional engine system relies on the lower cellar temperature to maintain the ~1.5 volumes of CO2 in solution. The beer IS exposed to atmospheric pressure but maintains its low carbonation because of the lower temperature. The head on the beer is formed by running it through the sparkler.

So here is what I am a-thinkin:

One two hole stopper:


One 1/4" stainless tube that runs through the center hole (dip tube)

and

One of these air filters to avoid air-bourne contaminants such as acetobacer:

OK - more or less finished version:

Tapper:


Fully hooked up Mini-Engine:

Boerderij, you got me waiting with baited breath to see if it works!!!

Revvy said:

Boerderij, you got me waiting with baited breath to see if it works!!!

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You may have to wait a while..... Have you seen all the projects I have stacked up? It is much easier to design systems than it is to find the money and time to build them. That said, my next brew will likely be my smoked porter for the winter and I would love to have that on the engine.

Plus, this should only cost me about $50. When I get around to it, I will do a build thread and write up on how to use it. It'll probably be two or more months.

On its own the RV pump isn't tall enough to fit a pint glass under the tap. Besides the pump cylinder extends 2-3 inches below the pump stand. You may want to consider raising the pump off the surface of the fridge.

I wish my lunch hour would last all day....

Here are the plans:

1 small dorm fridge: $139 from Lowes or under $10 any day of the week on CL.



Drill a hole through the top of the fridge. I have shown it centered because I will likely only have one real ale on tap. If you wanted you could likely fit 4 of these on top of one mini fridge.

1 Rocket Hand Pump: $38.13



1 Stainless racking cane (3/8): $10.00



Some wood as desired. I will probably use white oak or cherry because I have a lot of that laying around.

First Build, the tapper:

Cut the SS racking cane to about 11-12" and bend the end such that it will reach the outside radius of the mini kegs. Slide the racking cane through the center hole of a dual hole stopper. Then, press a HEPA air filter into the second hole.



The bend in the tube allows full draining of the keg, and the filter inhibits air bourne contaminates from entering the keg and prematurely spoiling the beer.

The rest is quite simple, I would build a block to raise the pump, as suggested.

Here is the fully assembled unit:


Here is the front removed, I would just make this a compression fit, pop it on, pop it off. It is important to leave enough room for the fridge door to fully open:


It is also important to leave the back open so that the fridge can operate normally:


Here you can see into the fridge, with the front off and the fridge door open. The tapped keg is sitting on a wedge so that it is tilted with the curve of the tapper sitting at the lowest point.


The orange tubing would be some beer line. As the pump draws beer up and out the sparkler, air is drawn through the filter into the keg. Authentic, and much cheaper than a regular engine.

So i'm confused how do you go about carbonating this before you put it in the mini-firkin and how long will the beer stay good in there?

RockfordWhite said:

So i'm confused how do you go about carbonating this before you put it in the mini-firkin and how long will the beer stay good in there?

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Just add priming sugar when you keg. I suspect if you purge the air, maybe a month?

The mini keg or do you keg it in a normal corney first?

Just think of the mini-kegs like big bottles. All the same rules apply.

DAMN YOU Boerderij Kabouter!!!

Why did you have to resurrect this thread! I had finally forgotten it. Now I am even more amped about it! I too have way too many projects already, sadly not all beer related.






mmmmmmm, creamity yummity, cask ale...

could you theoretically hook the filter up to the gas in side of a corny and serve this out of a kegerator?

Zymurgrafi said:

DAMN YOU Boerderij Kabouter!!!

Why did you have to resurrect this thread! I had finally forgotten it. Now I am even more amped about it! I too have way too many projects already, sadly not all beer related.






mmmmmmm, creamity yummity, cask ale...

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I just damn him with teasing us, and saying he has too many projects before he can get around to doing it...Otherwise I think the idea is the tits!!!!!

He's a beer engine tease.

Revvy said:

I just damn him with teasing us, and saying he has too many projects before he can get around to doing it...Otherwise I think the idea is the tits!!!!!

He's a beer engine tease.

Click to expand...

mmmmmmm. beer engine... tits...

RockfordWhite said:

could you theoretically hook the filter up to the gas in side of a corny and serve this out of a kegerator?

Click to expand...

Yes, that's how I served my Roggen at the Real Ale Fest.

Tip: Here's a trick if you don't think you'll finish the ale with in the 72 hours...
Take a second keg and fill it with CO2. Just enough to purge the air out of it. Connect the beer out of the CO2 keg to the gas in of the real ale. Open the gas in of the CO2 keg and start pumping your ale. The vacuum will draw the ambient CO2 from the other keg leaving a blanket of CO2 over the ale. It will last longer and still fall under the rules of CAMRA.

Sounds like some good cream stouts and Scottish ales...

Kabouter -

Here is a dip-tube tap idea for 5L minikegs.

Here is the best way to keep a blanket of carbon dioxide on the ale: Click here, then click "Sundries". You want the cask breather. Yeah, it's expensive, but it works. Don't half-arse it; use the right tool for the job.

You know, for that matter...

Here is an Angram handpump. I've seen these go for ~$100. Add the cask breather, and you can dispense anything the UK way.

In fact, here's a Homark engine for £45, Buy-It-Now. Shipping will be a *****, but...

Bob

I realize that you can do this in a different way that would be more professional. However, the idea of this whole thread is to provide a cheap alternative to that. There is now way I would drink enough real ale to justify that setup (yet anyway). I can justify the $50-60 it will cost for my cheap conversion though.

Also, I like the idea of not using a breather and allowing the beer to slightly oxidize over the three or four days it takes me to kick the 5L. Maybe some day I will get a real engine, but I don't ever see a breather in my future.

I have a couple questions. I love casks on a hand pump but in order to get that cask taste you you add oak chips to secondary? Also, asthetics aside, is there much difference in the angram pump and the cheap $25 one?

Oak chips? Not necessary. There is no reason to expect wood flavor from cask ale. Just because it's "cask ale" doesn't necessarily mean it's been in wood.

As for the differences, one is for beer, and the design has been pulling beer for well over a hundred years. The other is an RV water pump engineered into service by homebrewers who are either too cheap or too clever by half. And I seriously mean that with all due respect!

Bob

BobNQ3X said:

As for the differences, one is for beer, and the design has been pulling beer for well over a hundred years. The other is an RV water pump engineered into service by homebrewers who are either too cheap or too clever by half. And I seriously mean that with all due respect!

Bob

Click to expand...

But what is the main difference with the beer between the two?

BobNQ3X said:

Here is a dip-tube tap idea for 5L minikegs.

Click to expand...

Thanks Bob. This is the simplest, least costly, and lowest profile diy 5L tap that I've seen. I guess I've got another project for the weekend!

dataz722 said:

But what is the main difference with the beer between the two?

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Not knowing the RV water pump in as great detail as I know the beer engine, I have to confess I don't know for sure. Both are designed to pull fluid from a reservoir to the outlet, where "normal" CO2 systems push fluid from reservoir to outlet.

A beer engine has a cylinder with flaps and valves in it. There is an inlet and an outlet. When you pull the handle, beer is pulled into one portion of the cylinder, and beer in another portion of the cylinder is pushed through the neck into the glass. This is why the cask itself must be vented; air (or CO2 through a low-pressure breather valve) must be pulled into the cask to prevent pulling a vacuum and damaging the engine.

lustreking said:

Thanks Bob. This is the simplest, least costly, and lowest profile diy 5L tap that I've seen. I guess I've got another project for the weekend!

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Glad I could help, Steve. Hope you had fun at the Big Brew!

Bob

Had to bump this one for good measure; I was listening to an old BBR podcast discussing cask conditioned ales and it reminded me of this thread. BK- did you ever get this one off the ground? I've seen a couple beer engines on ebay recently at a good price from the UK (not withstanding freight charges) and I'd like to build a system using the 5L mini-kegs that are stacking up in the basement.

I'm leaning toward the RV pump conversion for the price factor, of course.

Time to go CL-hunting for another mini-fridge!

Sonvolt -

What size tubing did you use? (1/4" @ 10' ???)

Do you think it cools your beer well enough?

How cool is your keg while serving?

Now that you have used it for awhile, is there anything you would do differently if you made another one?

Wow, and I'd JUST given up on the beer engine as WAY out of my price range! Thanks so much for the RV pump idea ... should allow me to bust into the engine world without undue marriage-testing expenses.

I somehow missed this the first time around. Thanks for bringing it back from the dead. BK, any word? This might answer my problem of low funds and low space if it works well.

I have not had a chance to try this yet. I am still working on getting my brewery back up and running with some upgrades. Not sure when I will get to this.

sorry

The wife just gave me the go-ahead to use the soda fridge if i want to try. May have to see if i can make it work. it certainly looks sound...