The Walking dead

CreamyGoodness said:

Also, Rev, did your latest sermon go well? I know you were a little worried/anxious about it...

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Yeah I did great. Lot of good compliments. Once I got going everything went well. Now after I finish watch this episode I have to start this weeks.

I like that they are working in more human vs human violence. The reality of dealing with outsiders from other survivor groups is far more interesting to me than a few action scenes with zombies. I'm still hoping that they are done with focusing whole episodes on the internal drama going on at the farm though. The apparent fracturing of the group could play out interestingly, but I'm still worried about the show after the most recent past 6 or 7 episodes.

I dunno gang, I think we've become so desperate for something to actually happen in this show that some folks get all "chubbed up" for the few crumbs that gets thrown our way. Sure the first half or so was exciting, but i glazed over at the half way point when we got to the whole "Who's baby is it/Now that I'm in love with you I froze during the shootout" stuff....More snooze fest.

I guess the whole who will emerge as the leader Rick/Shane dichotomy looks like it's going to be interesting, and the thread of outside human involvement like ABG mentioned, and the idea of who's going to be more evil shane or the zombies.

But still to me this episode was only half interesting.

For me it's like the tension dissipates into boredom the minute the soap opera kicks in.

Revvy said:

For me it's like the tension dissipates into boredom the minute the soap opera kicks in.

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In the show's defense, the comic book is much more about the relationship between the living than their interaction with the dead. It felt like more of a story about people set in a post-apocalyptic zombie world than a zombie story with some people in it.

That being said, the writing is not up to snuff this season and some of the acting (Shane, Daryl, and occasionally Lorie) hasn't been great. Also, Rick's character in the show seems a little more schizophrenic than in the comics. We'll see, but this season seems much more disjointed than the first. It's very much a "hey look here is some action and some gore. Ok that is done, time for relationships" whereas that seemed to happen at the same time in the first season.

rifraf said:

I... this season seems much more disjointed than the first. It's very much a "hey look here is some action and some gore. Ok that is done, time for relationships" whereas that seemed to happen at the same time in the first season.

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I think you summed it up aptly, what I don't like about this season...

Plus it just occurred to me, I just really don't like any of the characters all that much. You usually want characters you relate to or at least sympathize with. But most of these guys I could really care less if they got bit. In fact half the time I want to hold the door open for the zombies to come in and get them.

In fact the only two I "like" are Dale and Daryl, especially Daryl, especially since he's sort of shedding the psycho/racist nature that so tied into his brother. To me he's the "sane" one, the one that I would trust most to lead the group. He's definitely more level headed that Rick is, and more apt to keep folks alive, because he doesn't seem to let any of the "drama" in his life interfere with the need to survive and protect.

And Dale is just sort of the even keel "grampa" of the group. Rock steady, good at putting things into perspective. Not afraid to speak his mind. An all around good joe.

The writing for Rick's character is a complete mess. He doesn't lead at all. I mean this to the point that it is not even believeable that he is so much as a figurehead leader for the group. Every decision he makes is made after constant pressure from someone else. I can 100% state that I would have left the group a long time ago.

Look at Darryl: it is just not remotely believeable that he is still with them. His personality doesn't fit with the group. It's been shown that he doesn't need the group. The only possible reason for him staying has been eliminated (the search for Sophia). Other members of the group essentially killed his brother. The list goes on, and and that's just one character!

When I say I need to see more action, its mainly because the story is lacking in so many other ways. At least with a good action flick/show, the action makes up for the lack of story or shoddy writing. For me, Walking Dead is definitely suffering from the same lack of direction and writing as any of the worst 80's action films.

Revvy said:

And Dale is just sort of the even keel "grampa" of the group. Rock steady, good at putting things into perspective. Not afraid to speak his mind. An all around good joe.

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I like Dale too, but he just isn't used enough. His character exists at this point just to make random observations about what is going on with the internal drama. Take away that aspect, and Dale's character exists for nothing! I wish he was used more often, I mean jeez, he's always pulling guard duty, let him shoot just one zombie or something!

Is it just me or is Carol the only female character who isnt completely insufferable, and she's just ok? It feels as if there is an underlying message of "and in the zombie apocolypse women would be a complete pain in the hooha.."

Airborneguy said:

The writing for Rick's character is a complete mess.

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This is what is so frustrating to me. I totally understand that TV shows aren't comic books and that there are inherent differences to the mediums, but the differences are much less between comics and TV Shows. Especially this one...the characters were already written! Don't change them!

I'd like to add, in regards to Rick. Look at this last episode when the friends show up as they are leaving the bar. This type of situation should be his specialty, he's a damn trained cop! They ended up hiding behind the wall for how long before he finally blurted out, quite meekly, "Your friends drew on us! Please, we all have gone through stuff." blah blah. Very weak, IMO. He went from having the element of surprise to being in an extremely compromised tactical situation in mere seconds just because he couldn't make a good, snap decision under pressure. The first move in that scene was made by the Chinese kid, not the "leader". This is a character who just quick-drawed like John Wayne and killed two people. It just doesn't fit. It's all over the place.

CreamyGoodness said:

MOD EDIT: Pared down the sig size. You have no need to fear, my anger is reserved for the foolish.

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Did a mod really put this in your signature? Poor taste. If this is real, I bet I can say who did it on my first guess.

I wondered what you, Airborne, thought about Rick from the cop aspect. Seems to me that an awful lot of what he does flies in the face of what little I know of police training...

Was anyone else hoping Laurie got bitten while trapped in the car?

The mod put in the "pared down" part, but the quote is mine. It was off Morrowind, some of the orc NPCs will say it when you pass by. I liked it a lot so I kept it.

I didnt mind the mods paring down my signature at all actually, since I cant afford to pay for a membership right now I want to be as good a "citizen" as I can...

Frankiesurf said:

Was anyone else hoping Laurie got bitten while trapped in the car?

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This is one the writers got right, hate her in the show as much as I did the books.

+1. Sometimes, rarely, I dislike a character so much that it rubs off onto the actor. This is one of those times. I think I truly dislike her as an actor, and would be inclined to never watch anything else with her in it...

Frankiesurf said:

Was anyone else hoping Laurie got bitten while trapped in the car?

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Frankiesurf said:

Was anyone else hoping Laurie got bitten while trapped in the car?

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I was praying for it!

CreamyGoodness said:

I wondered what you, Airborne, thought about Rick from the cop aspect. Seems to me that an awful lot of what he does flies in the face of what little I know of police training...

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A lot of the issues aren't so much with training but mindset. The dynamic between him and Shane is even worse. Shane is much closer to how I see a real cop performing in a situation such as theirs than Rick has been. Rick might pass for a rookie just out of the academy, but that's about as far as I would go. Hell, Rick has stuck with his sidearm for the entire series. He doesn't even have a semi-auto. The only other weapon I recall him picking up was a bolt-action rifle, another highly inefficient weapon. He just seems to have no tactical sense at all. Shane on the other hand has a highly tactical mindset, can make quick decisions, and shows much more loyalty to even Rick's own family! Have you ever heard Rick talk about sacrificing to save Carl and the wife like Shane did on this episode? Half of the time he puts them in bad situations or leaves them to go off on some nonsense mission! ....ugh... I'm just getting more frustrated as I type this.

I do seem to remember in Atlanta a highly useful armored military vehicle and what I think was an M60 (the ammo came on a chain). Imagine if that puppy was mounted on top of the RV? Rick left them there for reasons I dont understand. While I can understand wanting a hand-cannon like that .45 (again, I think its a 45, Im not really knowledgable on weapons post-dating the American Civil War) for sheer knockdown, I think having a semi-auto on the other hip sure couldnt hurt.

CreamyGoodness said:

I do seem to remember in Atlanta a highly useful armored military vehicle and what I think was an M60 (the ammo came on a chain). Imagine if that puppy was mounted on top of the RV? Rick left them there for reasons I dont understand. While I can understand wanting a hand-cannon like that .45 (again, I think its a 45, Im not really knowledgable on weapons post-dating the American Civil War) for sheer knockdown, I think having a semi-auto on the other hip sure couldnt hurt.

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Actually, as far as a zombie apocalypse goes, fully automatic weapons aren't as useful as semi. Ditto for a hand cannon. Against a living human, those weapons have stopping power and the ability to mow through crowds. Zombies don't feel pain and can't get scared. An accurate .22 is more effective than a machine gun because of the need to hit the brain directly.

See "The Zombie Survival Guide" by Max Brooks for more detail

Also, the "Rick running off leaving his family to save people" plays a large role in the books which is why him just shooting those two guys and not offering to bring them back to the farm felt very out of character.

I disagree on the automatic weapon, especially an M60/240B with adequate ammo supplies. As shown when the zombie was trying to get into the car after the wife (I seriously don't even know her name, I hate her), they are falling apart, literally rotting away. While the flesh might still be "living", an M60 could easily chop them to pieces small enough to no longer be a threat. An M60 might not be the ideal personal weapon for a lone survivor in all situations, but considering that they are a group with available vehicles, it would have greatly added to their survivability factor when used as part of an effectively executed tactical plan.

Airborneguy said:

I disagree on the automatic weapon, especially an M60/240B with adequate ammo supplies. As shown when the zombie was trying to get into the car after the wife (I seriously don't even know her name, I hate her), they are falling apart, literally rotting away. While the flesh might still be "living", an M60 could easily chop them to pieces small enough to no longer be a threat. An M60 might not be the ideal personal weapon for a lone survivor in all situations, but considering that they are a group with available vehicles, it would have greatly added to their survivability factor when used as part of an effectively executed tactical plan.

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I alsways figured the best weapon, especially for a crowd of them, would be a grenade launcher. The concussion affect alone should be good for breaking them apart or knocking them down at least. And shrapnel to the equation and it should be extra effective.

Id think that a grenade launcher would be best at a distance. Shrapnel and zombie bits aren't something you want coming back at you. Now, if you could magically push the horde back into safe grenade range THAT would be clutch! FUS RO DAH!

Revvy said:

I alsways figured the best weapon, especially for a crowd of them, would be a grenade launcher. The concussion affect alone should be good for breaking them apart or knocking them down at least. And shrapnel to the equation and it should be extra effective.

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Revvy said:

I alsways figured the best weapon, especially for a crowd of them, would be a grenade launcher. The concussion affect alone should be good for breaking them apart or knocking them down at least. And shrapnel to the equation and it should be extra effective.

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The only thing about a grenade launcher is the the ammo is not as available as the 7.62 round, or even a 5.56. The best weapon for the job is a 3 shot burst M4 or M16, with a long range scope and a set of flip up iron sights. Then you have the availability of the ammo, less weight, the ability to hit a longer range target with precision fire, and the ability to conduct close quarters combat if needed. Not a single person in their group has picked up an M16 and they have passed hundreds of them.

^This.

And a machete or katana.

Can somebody point me to the scene where they walked past 100 M16's? I'm almost certain that doesn't exist.

Weren't there dead soldiers outside the CDC in the first season?

BargainMugs said:

Weren't there dead soldiers outside the CDC in the first season?

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Yes, but the zed-words took all of those weapons.

Lunchtime said:

Can somebody point me to the scene where they walked past 100 M16's? I'm almost certain that doesn't exist.

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There's been dead soldiers in probably 1/3 of the episodes. There were a ton at the CDC, hundreds in the first few episodes (the hospital alone had a whole base around it including helicopters!) and some when Shane and the fat guy went to get the medicine for Carl. There's been soldiers all over the place and while I don't specifically recall taking note of their weapons, I'm fairly confident the group could have found one or two.

Oh btw, wasnt the one guy in the bar Rene from True Blood? If so, death at the end of one episode is an awful waste of talent...

Tnoodle said:

The only thing about a grenade launcher is the the ammo is not as available as the 7.62 round, or even a 5.56. The best weapon for the job is a 3 shot burst M4 or M16, with a long range scope and a set of flip up iron sights. Then you have the availability of the ammo, less weight, the ability to hit a longer range target with precision fire, and the ability to conduct close quarters combat if needed. Not a single person in their group has picked up an M16 and they have passed hundreds of them.

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Exactly. To be fair, all of Brooks' books that I was quoting put a huge emphasis on mobility and the idea of heading North at all costs

BargainMugs said:

And a machete or katana.

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Sounds great, and looks good on film, but these weapons should be extreme last resort weapons only. They allow the enemy to get WAY too close (I can legally justify shooting a man with a knife when he's 21 feet away, consider that). They are very physically demanding to use (huge downside). They break. They need to be sharpened. Bladed weapons have been backup weapons ever since guns were invented. I don't see how a "zombie" attack changes that.

Airborneguy said:

Sounds great, and looks good on film, but these weapons should be extreme last resort weapons only. They allow the enemy to get WAY too close (I can legally justify shooting a man with a knife when he's 21 feet away, consider that). They are very physically demanding to use (huge downside). They break. They need to be sharpened. Bladed weapons have been backup weapons ever since guns were invented. I don't see how a "zombie" attack changes that.

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Silence. Guns are not silent and attract more zombies, which can hear gun shots from about a mile away. Bladed/melee weapons are meant to be used while creeping around to scavenge for supplies and put down a zombie, hopefully, before they notice you. This is where crossbows (like Daryl's) also come in handy.

Guns are only for escaping.

Whaddaya think about flishet (sp?) rounds? Basically shotgun shells full of little nails.

Sure, you have to pump the shottie after each shot, but I've heard stories from Vietnam of seeing men tacked to trees and even each other...

Same guy also told me he was one of the first to use a silencer on a M16 in a top secret beta testing in Dien Bien Phu, in which the rifle was now whisper quiet in a closed room, so take that at face value...

You guys see this? It was in the beerstreet journal. More SweetWater On The Walking Dead

CreamyGoodness said:

Whaddaya think about flishet (sp?) rounds? Basically shotgun shells full of little nails.

Sure, you have to pump the shottie after each shot, but I've heard stories from Vietnam of seeing men tacked to trees and even each other...

Same guy also told me he was one of the first to use a silencer on a M16 in a top secret beta testing in Dien Bien Phu, in which the rifle was now whisper quiet in a closed room, so take that at face value...

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Flechette rounds would probably work in so much as you pin a zombie to the wall, or take out the brain stem. Silencers obviously make any gun better. All my nonsense comes from The Zombie Survival guide, which I highly recommend to zombie fans and may be the single greatest book for reading while on the throne.

The book is written very seriously like a wilderness survival guide, breaking down individual weapons and pros cons (flamethrowers only make flaming zombies, etc) and is very funny.

...or while getting getting avery painfully located tattoo. That's when I read it.

CreamyGoodness said:

Whaddaya think about flishet (sp?) rounds? Basically shotgun shells full of little nails.

Sure, you have to pump the shottie after each shot, but I've heard stories from Vietnam of seeing men tacked to trees and even each other...

Same guy also told me he was one of the first to use a silencer on a M16 in a top secret beta testing in Dien Bien Phu, in which the rifle was now whisper quiet in a closed room, so take that at face value...

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The ONLY Bad-assed thing (other than the chick's agreeable awesome ass) in Resident Evil 4 (resuscitations, or regurgitations or whatever it was called) was when she admitted to collecting coins, and then unloaded a sawed off into a monster's groin with a handful of the coins. Definitely dis-emboweling it.

I always thought this would be an awesome zombie crowd killer



But you'd need multiple ball bearing bombs 4 sure. And a place to hide while suckling on Halle.

what i want to know is why it seems like no character in a zombie movie or show seems like they have ever seen a zombie movie or show. i would think if there were a zombie apocalypse, unless you've been in a cave for the past thirty years, you would at least have a pretty good awareness of what to do, zombie behavior, etc. They don't even know that when you have a long drawn out fight with a zombie and just barely kill them before they kill you, not to relax and catch your breath- because if they do that the camera will pan in for a close up, and when it pans back, there will be a zombie sneaking up on you. somebody should step up and say- "wait - i saw dead alive"- or something...

Most movies and shows, including the Walking Dead have no zombie culture/knowledge/lore previous to the zombie apocalypse.

It's also known as genre blindness.