Not a fan of dry-hopping

Hello HBT

I've dry hopped 3 of my batches lately. It's NZ Nelson Sauvin.
The beer came out grassy with an overly sweety hop taste, i don't know how to put it into words though.

But everyone seems to get good results from dry hopping. Is it very dependent on the recipe/hops to choose to dry-hop or otherwise the beer wouldn't taste great?

I made an extract Pale Ale OG1050, single hop(NZ Nelson Sauvin) IBUs was at around 30, dry hopped with 1oz. of hops for 2 weeks, bottled.

Thank you !

+1 on DH'ing for too long. I usually do 7 days max to avoid the taste you're talking about.

They are correct. Yooper explained this to me so any dry hopping I do is 3-4 days now to avoid any risk of that taste.

Nothing wrong with disliking dry hopping. Heck, I dislike hops entirely! Got tired of highly-hopped beers many years ago.

Agreed. I dry hop for 5 to 7 days.

Also, choose high AA% hops. They usually have more essential oils relative to their vegetal matter.

I just threw 3 oz. of pellet hops into my IPA secondary. 2 oz cascade, 1 oz chinook. Smells like grapefruit and citrus.

Its hopped a lot already, though, so I will not dry hop for more than 4 days (bottling on saturday).

Just remember that what you're smelling are chemicals that have left the beer. There's less of it in the brew, now. That said, you should have plenty of oils in the beer.

I ususally dry hop for 6-7 days. I've never dry hopped longer than 7 days and my beers have all turned out just fine.

ok, here's a question... do you guys rack to secondary for dry hopping, or just chuck the hops in for the last 5 days of primary, or use some sort of hop sock technique?

and, if you rack to secondary, and (perhaps) use a hop sock technique, do you dry hop at the beginning of secondary fermentation to allow the flavors to meld, or do you do it at the end?

i like the flavor of the dry hopping, but i haven't quite got the technique and timing down yet.

Euripidez said:

I just threw 3 oz. of pellet hops into my IPA secondary. 2 oz cascade, 1 oz chinook. Smells like grapefruit and citrus.

Its hopped a lot already, though, so I will not dry hop for more than 4 days (bottling on saturday).

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Holy hops, Batman! If that's 5 gallons, I think you'll be able to smell that IPA a mile away.

dadshomebrewing said:

ok, here's a question... do you guys rack to secondary for dry hopping, or just chuck the hops in for the last 5 days of primary, or use some sort of hop sock technique?

and, if you rack to secondary, and (perhaps) use a hop sock technique, do you dry hop at the beginning of secondary fermentation to allow the flavors to meld, or do you do it at the end?

i like the flavor of the dry hopping, but i haven't quite got the technique and timing down yet.

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I don't think there's really such a thing as "secondary fermentation," is there? Once the yeast have fermented the sugars in the wort, all that's left is the yeast cleaning up anything from that process. They're not going to be doing too much in a secondary, especially when what, 90-95%? of the yeast was left behind in the primary fermenter? From what I've read, secondaries only help to clear a beer faster and provide a "cleaner" environment for adding things like dry hops and fruits.

I'm using a secondary tomorrow for the first time, just to learn about how the process works. I'll be tossing the 1/2oz of hop leaf in a hop bag into the secondary, the racking on top of it. I'll probably attach a SS washer to the bag to keep the hop bag below the surface and fully wetted. The clone recipe I'm using says to dry hop for 5 days, which is in-line with what I've read everywhere else lately, so after 4 days I'm going to cold crash and then rack to my bottling bucket.

btw... i'm interested in that Java Vanilla Porter... did you brew it yet?

unionrdr said:

Ok,it's simple...wait till the beer has reached FG in primary & has settle out clear or slightly misty (as is the case with medium floc yeasts) to dry hop. I use musln hop socks for pellets & steeping socks for whole leaf. Being settles out prevents the hop oils from coating the yeast & going to the bottom. Idry hop for 7 days at that point,then bottle it up.
If you wanna rack to secondary to dry hop,don't rack over till the beer is at FG. I'd even let it settle out first,since at this same time it's cleaning up. not waiting for this to happen is one of the reasons funky flavors & smells show up later.

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thanks.

dadshomebrewing said:

btw... i'm interested in that Java Vanilla Porter... did you brew it yet?

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Nah, not yet. I was going to make it up as a quick extract recipe a couple weeks ago to give to my wife as a Christmas gift (she loves the one from Atwater Brewery here in Detroit), but then she got pregnant. Haha.

The only research I got around to doing was this thread here on HBT: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/detroit-brewerys-java-vanilla-porter-139624/

dadshomebrewing said:

ok, here's a question... do you guys rack to secondary for dry hopping, or just chuck the hops in for the last 5 days of primary, or use some sort of hop sock technique?

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I used to rack to secondary for dry hopping. Now I just make sure fermentation is done in primary and huck the hops right in the primary. I recently did a Blonde Ale and for the first time used pellets for dry hopping. I have always used whole hops for dry hopping. I put the pellets in a muslin bag that I had soaked in Star-san, and hucked it right in the primary fermenter. I just kegged this beer 2 days ago. I did notice that the pellets don't absorb near as much beer as the whole hops. They swelled a little, but not much. I bet I was losing almost a 1/4 gallon of beer per ounce of whole hops used for dry hopping. I think I might use pellets from now on.

I dry hop for 3-5 days.

Gary

i dry-hop in primary. since i only dry-hop for 3 to 5 days, there is little point in getting the beer off the yeast.

also: nelson sauvin is an acquired taste, i'm told (i have some in the freezer but haven't had a chance to use them yet). next time you dry-hop, try using something a little less controversial - i'd suggest cascade or centennial for that classic american hop aroma, maybe amarillo or citra if you want to go new school.

dadshomebrewing said:

ok, here's a question... do you guys rack to secondary for dry hopping, or just chuck the hops in for the last 5 days of primary, or use some sort of hop sock technique?

and, if you rack to secondary, and (perhaps) use a hop sock technique, do you dry hop at the beginning of secondary fermentation to allow the flavors to meld, or do you do it at the end?

i like the flavor of the dry hopping, but i haven't quite got the technique and timing down yet.

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I made the mistake of racking my first IPA to a secondary vessel which was a carboy (first noob mistake). I then dry hopped with whole leaf hops without a hop sock or anything (second noob mistake). All I can say is, never again will I make that mistake. I lost well over a gallon of beer because my auto-siphon kept getting clogged from the hop leaves?!

Now, the only time I transfer a brew to my carboy for secondary/clearing is if I need a bucket to brew with. For my IPA's now, I just wait until I know fermentation is complete (usually around 14 days) and then throw my hops (pellet or whole) into a muslin sock (large or small depending on the hops). I also sanitize some marbles and throw them in with the hops to add weight. I then tie some fishing string to the sock and the other end to my bucket handle deep enough so it is submerged, but not too deep that it is touching the bottom. And I keep them in there for 6-7 days.

MMJfan said:

I made the mistake of racking my first IPA to a secondary vessel which was a carboy (first noob mistake). I then dry hopped with whole leaf hops without a hop sock or anything (second noob mistake). All I can say is, never again will I make that mistake. I lost well over a gallon of beer because my auto-siphon kept getting clogged from the hop leaves

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Ouch, yeah. That should be required reading for first-time dry hoppers: use a hop bag or put some kind of straining material over the siphon when racking.

MMJfan said:

I then dry hopped with whole leaf hops without a hop sock or anything (second noob mistake). All I can say is, never again will I make that mistake. I lost well over a gallon of beer because my auto-siphon kept getting clogged from the hop leaves?!

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i let the hops float lose in my carboy, and then put a bag over the end of my auto-siphon (held in place with a sanitized elastic or twist-tie) when i rack to my bottling bucket. works like a charm. some people have said that the bag gets clogged but i've never had a problem.

for me this solves the problem of how to get a bag full of bloated hops through the small neck of the carboy. if you're using a bucket then this is obviously less of a concern, but i would still let my dry-hops float free. it'll increase the amount of hop-to-beer contact.

unionrdr said:

Pellets def soak up less beer,but they also give more bittering more readilly than whole leaf (raw) hops. That tends to give a certain crispness that's pretty good. I guess it all depends on the qualities desired...

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you're not getting any bitterness during dry-hopping. bitterness required isomerization of the alpha acids, which requires heat. so you're only getting aroma (and a touch of flavor) from your dry hops. that's why we can dry-hop with high-alpha hops like columbus, citra, simcoe, etc

Off topic but what exactly is the difference between a hop bag and a steeping bag? Are they both just different names for a muslin bag?

sweetcell said:

i let the hops float lose in my carboy, and then put a bag over the end of my auto-siphon (held in place with a sanitized elastic or twist-tie) when i rack to my bottling bucket. works like a charm. some people have said that the bag gets clogged but i've never had a problem.

for me this solves the problem of how to get a bag full of bloated hops through the small neck of the carboy. if you're using a bucket then this is obviously less of a concern, but i would still let my dry-hops float free. it'll increase the amount of hop-to-beer contact.


you're not getting any bitterness during dry-hopping. bitterness required isomerization of the alpha acids, which requires heat. so you're only getting aroma (and a touch of flavor) from your dry hops. that's why we can dry-hop with high-alpha hops like columbus, citra, simcoe, etc

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*I used the term "bittering" for lack of a better descriptor. raw hops tend to be mellower than pellet hops,which tend to be crisper in terms of flavor/aroma qualities. I hope this clears it up. I couldn't think of a good way to describe what I experienced thus far. I think the pelletizing process crushes the lupulin glands & makes that bittering/crispness of flavor/aroma easier to get than whole leaf (raw) hops.
Hop sacks are muslin as well,but only about 6" long & 2" wide or so. Grain steeping bags are like 12" by 3". BIAB sacks seem to be a bit longer than steeping bags according to what my cheap skate ways have saved thus far from various kits & lhbs outings.

BeardedMan said:

Off topic but what exactly is the difference between a hop bag and a steeping bag? Are they both just different names for a muslin bag?

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not sure this applies to everyone, but when i say "hop bag" i mean a much finer bag than a muslin bag. for me, hop bags are made out of a synthetic material and have a very, very fine mesh. they're fine enough to contain pellet hop gunk. muslin is a natural fiber like cotton and muslin bags will let pellet gunk flow out.

I think that Nelson Sauvin may not be a great choice for a dry hop

BeardedMan said:

Off topic but what exactly is the difference between a hop bag and a steeping bag? Are they both just different names for a muslin bag?

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I have two different sized muslin bags I use. I refer to 'hop bags' as the smaller muslin bags and the 'steeping bags' as the larger muslin bags if that is of any help?

metanoia said:

Ouch, yeah. That should be required reading for first-time dry hoppers: use a hop bag or put some kind of straining material over the siphon when racking.

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I did put straining material over the siphon and it still was getting clogged as hell.

Dry hopping in the bucket is much easier IMO...

gingerdawg said:

I think that Nelson Sauvin may not be a great choice for a dry hop

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Exactly. I think there's a lot of misinformation in this thread.

First, if you want to transfer to a secondary, there's nothing wrong with it. It's not always necessary, however. I only transfer when I'm washing the yeast. That way I get a much cleaner yeast cake and don't have to deal with the hop junk.

Second, the length of time depends on the type of hop and the temperature. Warmer temperatures, and certain hops will tend to give more grassy flavors. I dry hop my IPA (5 gallon batch) with 2oz each of Citra, Cascade, and Amarillo for two weeks. That's right, 6oz of hops for two weeks in 5 gallons. No grassy flavors. I keep the temperature between 70* and 72* and it has incredible flavor. Now, I just did the exact same recipe, except I had to substitute Galaxy for the Citra. That batch did have a slight grassy flavor, but then Galaxy is a little more earthy than Citra.

My point is, your mileage WILL vary, depending on ingredients and conditions. You can't say "Two weeks is absolutely too long to dry hop." That's crap. Try different hops, and different lengths of time and you'll find a combination that you like.

metanoia said:

Ouch, yeah. That should be required reading for first-time dry hoppers: use a hop bag or put some kind of straining material over the siphon when racking.

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It's funny, but I never use hops bags. Ever. But I'm pretty proficient with racking, as an old winemaker.

Some hops taste better than others, and I really love dryhopping with the traditional hops used. I love the flavor of simcoe, cascade, centennial, amarillo, and even chinook for American pale ales and IPAs.

TheZymurgist said:

...You can't say "Two weeks is absolutely too long to dry hop." That's crap. Try different hops, and different lengths of time and you'll find a combination that you like.

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100% agree. I get great hopness after 3-5 days, but I've gone as long as a month w/out issues too. Try varying temp too - it does different things. I'm usually hesitant to blame the grassy boogyman...usually something else is going on.

I have noticed dry hopping in a bag, my results are better if I don't squeeze it upon removal. Yes, I lose more beer, but the stuff I squeeze out doesn't taste all that good. It's vegetal & harsh.

metanoia said:

Holy hops, Batman! If that's 5 gallons, I think you'll be able to smell that IPA a mile away.

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3oz in 5g seems pretty normal to me. I typically use 4-6oz dry depending on gravity & kettle additions.

Yooper said:

It's funny, but I never use hops bags. Ever. But I'm pretty proficient with racking, as an old winemaker.

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How do you keep the siphon from getting stuck with hop sediment? Some kind of straining? Or some way to get the hops to settle? I do remember reading about your proficiency with a regular siphon from winemaking, I'm guessing your method stems from that.

metanoia said:

How do you keep the siphon from getting stuck with hop sediment? Some kind of straining? Or some way to get the hops to settle? I do remember reading about your proficiency with a regular siphon from winemaking, I'm guessing your method stems from that.

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I'm pretty new and I wouldn't call myself skilled, but after cold crashing and being careful not to disturb the trub, I racked out of my carboy and sucked up almost no hop gunk. There was probably a good inch of trub on the bottom and I left a mark in it about an inch in diameter and a half inch thick. That left me with a film on the bottom of my bottling bucket.

Try holding the siphon in the middle of your wort (top to bottom) and slowly lower it to stay in the middle. Between that, cold crashing (which seems to make the trub denser), and just being really careful not to disturb the trub, you should be alright.

Note: I used pellet hops.

metanoia said:

How do you keep the siphon from getting stuck with hop sediment? Some kind of straining? Or some way to get the hops to settle? I do remember reading about your proficiency with a regular siphon from winemaking, I'm guessing your method stems from that.

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No straining. I don't know how to explain it. Leaf hops tend to float, but some fall, so I just stick the racking cane under the floating hops, and above the trub (starting in the middle) and then lower the racking cane as the level of the beer drops.

Here's a photo of a couple of different beers:




And here's me racking a different beer (in an ale pail):

All those floating hops makes me happy inside.

I'm guessing this applies to leaf hops too? It looks you've got really nice fresh whole hops in those pics.