Does anybody on here do any automation for a living? I do it in the Commercial HVAC field and I love reading these threads. I'm just curious if anyone is using any commercial/Industrial applications on their homebrew setup.
I have looked into an all automated brewery for the house but opted for relay logic for all my fluid level and temp control on my system and use ball valves for the flow control. The only PID on the system is in the HLT. The PLC is just to expensive for what were going to do IMHO.
I'm a process control specialist (instrumentation Technician) at a very large Corn Starch Processing Facility. We have processes from robotics, Regenerative Thermal Oxidizers, complex chemical delivery, Starch Dryers, Scrubbers, to water treatment, utilities (50lb - 700lb Steam, power generation, 4160V Centac air compressors), etc.
SLC 5/05, PLC2, PLC 5, Control Logix 5000, Provox, Control Net, Ethernet Remote I/O rack, Pi Data historian.
Field instruments (pH, air/water/chemical flow, pressure, temp, level, from Fisher, Foxboro, Rosemount, Moore, Endress & Hauser, Micro-Motion, Mettler Toldeo, etc.
Honeywell Burner Controllers, Motoman Robots, Stone bag packaging and palletizing systems, Allen Bradley PowerFlex Drives, PF4, PF70, 700, 7000, 753, 755. 1336, 1305s, Motors from 1/25HP to 750HP, Fisher and Masoneilin Control Valves, Xomox, Triad, and Hytork Discrete Valves.
The plant was built in 1967 and equipment ranges from ancient to tomorrow's technology.
As a field tech, I take calls for any sort of malfunction and troubleshoot, repair or replace any necessary items and also design and install new systems.
Currently just beginning 4 Control upgrades for 4 different processes from PLC 2 and Provox to CL5000 at $200,000 each. We also have 4 new builds beginning this fall, $220 million.
Funny..Sounds like you and I have the same job and use the exact same equipment. I was reading your post and kept thinking to myself...That sounds like my job, that sounds like my plant.... Our plant was built in 2004 and we just now upgraded our 700hp forming fans to AB VFD's They used to be 4160 soft starts and holy crap when we would fire them up (7 of them) the entire city of Shasta Lake would go dim....LOL
Allen Bradley, you can buy better but you can't pay more.
Sorry, I was a Phoenix Contact and Eaton sales guy for a long time.
Allen Bradley, you can buy better but you can't pay more.
Sorry, I was a Phoenix Contact and Eaton sales guy for a long time.
.......For my brew setup I've been playing with a Click PLC from automation direct......
Haha... I'll agree with half of that, you absolutely can't pay more. However, I'm sort of a Rockwell fanboy. I've got a couple of L71 processors on my desk at work right now and they are a pleasure to work with. So please enlighten me, what is better?
Wow all you guys seem to have a lot of experience in PLCs. But one thing that always puzzles me is what is the benifit of going for a PLC control (for our homebreweries, etc) over a microcontroller? To me the PLC seem more restrictive in both hardware and programing (but I also have no real knowledge apart from "they are programed in ladder logic, which is kind of like relay logic").
After look for the answer myself for a while all I could come up with is that in an industrial installation where they end product would likely be maintained by the site maintenacne electricians that PLC/Ladder logic has become the default standard - i.e. most of them know how to deal with ladder logic since it follows a similar methology of relay logic.
So is the reason you guys are using these because it is easier for others (or yourself since you have no learning curve to deal with) to deal with a PLC rather than lines and lines of code?
I don't think i know what you mean by microcontroller. I use that term for small PLCs. I don't think it's fair to say that PLCs are restrictive. Can you give an example? I use a plc because i understand the logic, and there are some great inexpensive options out there.
Could one not PWM the typical PSC motors that are used on homebrew size pumps? This could be done with an Arduino, couldn't it?The out of the box PLC's can be useful in brewing but the software lacks the flexibility to do much more than simple process control. Beyond that and you are into roll your own software application to bring all the rest of the functionality into play.
While the Atmel processors used in the Arduino series hobby boards are handy, they are limited in what can be expected of them. For basic Brutus style single infusion systems as well as basic RIMS and HERMS systems, the Arduino platform can be made to work reasonably well.
When you get beyond the basic systems and need analog outputs for flow control you need more robust hardware. One approach is to use PLC type IO hardware like I have, and write an application to make it work, or design and build IO boards that connect to a tablet or laptop running a control application.
For me the Phase 2 system was test of hardware and software, Phase 3 project is to bring the same control functions to custom IO boards that have same functions as Opto 22 hardware, with tablet sized foot print.
The out of the box PLC's can be useful in brewing but the software lacks the flexibility to do much more than simple process control.....
I guess its time for me to throw my hat into the ring. I am a systems engineer specializing in DeltaV DCS, both hardware and configuration. I also spent time as a residential electrician and E&I engineer in a chemical plant. My company currently handles the main brewery controls for the big boys (Miller/Coors and AB) out here.
We have shelves of old controllers and IO cards sitting around the office, a few other brewing engineers and I are planning to set up a fully automated rig to demonstrate our products - if only we can get the company to pay for it... It would sure be a big hit with the customers at the user exchanges.
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