Qs about AG brew

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Better get these things off my chest and out of my head before tomorrow....

So my buddy and I are going to do a compilation brew. I've never done an AG brew, and he says it's the only way he'll ever go. I asked him if it were much more difficult than extract brewing, and he said it was easy, just steep/mash the grains until the water gets hot and use that for the wort. He never mentioned sparging. He also complains that he sometimes gets a "thin" tasting beer. Could this be because of not sparging?

I guess the question is this: is sparging critical? If it is, is specific gear really required? Could a sparging setup be jerry-rigged? What would be the effect of not sparging?

I was thinking just heat water to the right temp and strain it through the steeped grains using a strainer. Doing it in parts would keep the strainer from getting too clogged and it would take a while, but would this work?

One last question, which I'm sure will completely expose me a rookie if I haven't already: Do we need to mill the grains before mashing?

it's a lot to throw at ya'll, but hopefully you can help us out before we decide what to do. Thanks.

Scout
 
Most important.

The grain must be milled!!!!!!!

Second if you just mash and use the wort you'll have a high gravity beer for a full bodied strong beer IF you use the correct amount of water. which is around 2.6l/k so 5kg of grain will need 13l of water. the grain will soak a load up so you may only get 8L of water out, when you boil this'll go down to 7l.

So you'll end up with just over a gallon of very strong beer.

This is why you need to sparge with around another 20+ litres of water.

I brew in 23l (6.5g) batches and put around 30l of water in my kettle. So I start with around 37L of water for Mashing and Sparging.


I have a feeling that you need to do a partial mash and then have plenty of malt extract to the wort.

Do you have an hydrometer?

I'd also spend a good few hours reading up.

www.howtobrew.com.

take a look at my links.
 
orfy said:
I'd also spend a good few hours reading up.

www.howtobrew.com.

take a look at my links.
Click to expand...
Yes! Do this before you brew. There is a lot more to AG than what your friend suggested. I'm not saying it is hard to do but it is definitely more complicated than steeping grains until the water gets hot.
Read through the web site that Orfy provided then ask us questions about anything you don't understand. :mug:
 
Definitely do some more reading unless you don't mind wasting a little money and learning things the hard way (and I'm not implying there's anything wrong with that...happens to me all the time!). I think orfy has a great suggestion with trying a partial mash first and RichBrewer links an excellent resource.

When I went to AG (relatively early, like you) I found the site most invaluable to me to be: http://cruisenews.net/brewing/infusion/. Seems to lay it out pretty well and shows how a minimum of equipment/extras can be used effectively.
 
If you have a(n) hydrometer, take a reading of your pre-boil wort. Make sure to correct the reading for temp. Make sure you have a few pounds of DME around so you can toss it into your boil if your reading is too low. That's my way of saying to be prepared for a partial mash if needed.:)
 
Baron von BeeGee said:
Definitely do some more reading unless you don't mind wasting a little money and learning things the hard way (and I'm not implying there's anything wrong with that...happens to me all the time!). I think orfy has a great suggestion with trying a partial mash first and RichBrewer links an excellent resource.


I absolutely second the motion on reading up. "How to Brew" by Palmer is an outstanding book and one you'll always hold onto. It sounds like your buddy should think about picking this one up himself.

If your friend is not sparging and then adding water to the brew kettle to achieve boil volume, the "thin" quality of his brews might be a direct result of failing to sparge. Essentially by failing to sparge, you're not extracting enough fermentables and the added water is now just diluting the concentration.

You also failed to mention temperature monitoring other than "till the water gets hot". Water at 120 degrees is "hot"; but its not hot enough to really activate the enzymes which in turn break down your starches into fermentable sugars. If your not mashing in the 140 to 153 degree range, you're missing the mark. This too can account for the "thin" quality in your buddy's brews.

Hands down - "How to Brew" by John Palmer and start with partial mashes, as suggested. The partial mash is much more forgiving if mistakes are made. I started brewing before the internet became big and had to make alot of my mistakes the hard way and expensive way. I wish I was able to log onto a great forum like this and have people steer me in the right direction when I started out.
Click to expand...
 
Don't know that i've ever seen anyone "sparge" like the fella in the link above.

I usually let the wort run out the bottom of the mash/lauter tun slowly while I pour the sparge water over the grain bed [using a sloted spoon to prevent digging channels].
 
Mike & John said:
Don't know that i've ever seen anyone "sparge" like the fella in the link above.

I usually let the wort run out the bottom of the mash/lauter tun slowly while I pour the sparge water over the grain bed [using a sloted spoon to prevent digging channels].
Click to expand...
You talk about batch sparging as if it's not sparging at all. However, I'd venture to say that a majority of the folks here sparge this way. Simply put, sparging is just rinsing the grain to grab any residual sugar present after starch conversion. Traditionally, it's done similar to what you describe (fly sparging). However, batch sparges are much simpler, faster, and, done correctly, can result in better efficiency (probably because the grain is agitated as the sparge water is added, increasing the "rinsing" action).

Like you, I prefer to fly sparge - but I use a pump and sparge arm to transfer from the hot liquor tank at the same rate that my wort is running off. In the end, it's all a matter of personal preference and technique.
 
Another batch sparger. That link was extremely helpful to me a few months ago when I was starting to work with grain. I've only been hitting around 70% or so, but there are things I can do that I know can get me up to 75% (actually remembering the PH, buffer, for example).
 
Nothing wrong with 70%

I use a very cheap and simple brewing system. My brew time is 4 - 5 hours. Depending who I belive for for efficiency calculations or what software I use to work it out I get between 70 and 80 efficiency.

I don't want to spend more time brewing or money on equipment or rely on a pump. A lot of recipes seem to be quoted on around a 70-75% efficiency anyway.
 
It doesn't sound like your friend understands the basics about mashing. "just steep/mash the grains until the water gets hot " isn't even correct for steeping specialty grains. For a mash to work correctly, it has to be kept in a narrow temperature range for an hour.

You can do a good job with modest grain bills with nothing more than a large grain bag. A strainer isn't going to work for 6-12 pounds of grain.
 
JOHN PALMER

AG isn't hard but its not as simple as putting some grain in a pot and boiling it. Do a little more research and you will be rewarded with a brew thats much better than your friends. I batch sparge because of the simplicity and haven't had a bad one yet.
 
orfy said:
Nothing wrong with 70%

I use a very cheap and simple brewing system. My brew time is 4 - 5 hours. Depending who I belive for for efficiency calculations or what software I use to work it out I get between 70 and 80 efficiency.

I don't want to spend more time brewing or money on equipment or rely on a pump. A lot of recipes seem to be quoted on around a 70-75% efficiency anyway.
Click to expand...

I know, I know, it's all about consistency; if I can plan for 70%, I know I'm golden when I'm planning. But dammit, I want to hit 75%!

I think the fundamental problem I have is that I haven't been sparging enough for the grain that I've been using. I've done some medium-big beers where I could have sparged a lot more than I did, if I wanted to boil down the wort for a lot longer than I did.

In any case, batch sparging is easy and makes great beer, nothing wrong with it at all...
 
the_bird said:
But dammit, I want to hit 75%!
Click to expand...

If you really want to increase your efficiency, try sparging with boiling water. :D

I am not saying that you will like the results, but I am pretty sure your efficiency will increase.

If you really want to increase your efficiency, then you must try doing things slightly differently and pay careful attention to the differences caused by your changes.

-a.
 
ajf said:
I doubt you want to work on the mash, but you may want to work on the grain crush.

-a.
Click to expand...

I buy already milled grains, but the last batch did look a little coarse from northern brewer.
 
I'm awaiting some grain mill rollers from Yuri, so I can begin crushing my own grain, hopefully I'll be able to squeeze a little bit more efficiency out with some tweaks. I need to remember to pay closer attention to PH. My next beer will be smaller (OG ~ 1048), so I'll be sparging more water relative to the total amount of grain. I fully expect that I'll be around 75% - if I'm not, that's not the end of the world, the recipe is planned based around 70%.
 

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