US Law: 100 Gallons of Homebrew Per Year - Fines?

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adamjackson

adamjackson

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via: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homebrewing

Individual states remain free to restrict or prohibit the manufacture of beer, mead, hard cider, wine and other fermented alcoholic beverages at home.[18] For example, Ala. Code § 28-1-1 addresses the illegal manufacture of alcoholic beverages in Alabama, and no other provision of Alabama law provides an exception for personal use brewing.
However, most states permit homebrewing, allowing 100 gallons of beer per adult per year and up to a maximum of 200 gallons per household annually when there are two or more adults residing in the household.[19] Because alcohol is taxed by the federal government via excise taxes, homebrewers are restricted from selling any beer they brew. This similarly applies in most Western countries. In 1979, President Jimmy Carter signed into law a bill allowing home beers, which was at the time not permitted without paying the excise taxes as a holdover from the prohibition of alcoholic beverages (repealed in 1933).[18] This change also exempted home brewers from posting a "penal bond" (which is currently $1000.00) which had the prohibitive effect of economically preventing brewers of small quantities from pursuing their hobby.​

A lot of us talk about what we're brewing here. I just did my 7th batch of the year so I'm at 35 gallons so not too bad. I'm wondering, by posting all of our brews here, aren't we sort of giving the evidence to face the fines?

Is any home brewer actually worried about this cap or challenging the US Government to prove it? I'm not asking for legal advice, just curious how people here stand on the matter.
 
Pretty sure I'm very near 100g already this year. I guess it's a good thing I'm married(and Mrs Baggins doesn't like beer).
 
I've thought about this. The way I look at it..... I can say I've brewed 500 gallons a year if I want, but that's just hear-say. They'd still have to prove that I did, either way. There are a tremendous amount of us on this forum, so it would take quite a lot of time to investigate. I doubt if any legal entities would take the time.
 
MaddBaggins said:
Pretty sure I'm very near 100g already this year. I guess it's a good thing I'm married(and Mrs Baggins doesn't like beer).
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You're allowed 100 gallons per adult (up to 200 gallons max per household) in each household, so you still got another 100 to go! :tank:
 
there are laws in most states still on the books that prohibit certain intamate relations or acts between a husband and wife, point being that if it doesn't cause any problems or hurt anyone and is done in the confines of your own home, law or not,does anyone really care?It's one thing to sell homebrew but if you happen to drink more than your 100 gal. of homebrew per year, that's your own business.
 
I'm wondering what the fine is as well, as it would a bunch of research to figure out what an individual member actually brews per year. I kinda thought about it to now that I buy my bulk in grain, but I guess I could always say I make nothing but barley wines and use the whole sack for 6 gallons, with ****ty efficiency lol
 
phoenixs4r said:
I'm wondering what the fine is as well, as it would a bunch of research to figure out what an individual member actually brews per year. I kinda thought about it to now that I buy my bulk in grain, but I guess I could always say I make nothing but barley wines and use the whole sack for 6 gallons, with ****ty efficiency lol
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I use all of the bulk grains I buy for baking, cooking, and making unfermented malt beverages! :p
 
adamjackson said:
Is any home brewer actually worried about this cap or challenging the US Government to prove it?
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The burden of proof is on the State, not the accused. They have to prove you did. You don't have to prove you didn't.

As for me, I brew 100.5 gallons of beer every year, run a 300-watt power amp on my CB, and I regularly travel the Interstate highway system at speeds well in excess of 100 miles per hour. All of these statements, of course, are dramatized embellishments and completely untrue.

;)
 
I'd be curious when (or if ever) the last person was prosecuted for exceeding the personal homebrewing limit. I'd like to thing that law enforcement has better things to do with their time.

There are many laws like this on the books in the rare event that they are needed for some bizarre set of circumstances, but are not routinely enforced on any level. Now, there is a legitimate debate which can be had about whether it's a good thing to have laws on the books that are not enforced, but that's going off topic a bit. THIS is a good article on how many felonies the average person commits everyday (It's a non-zero number).
 
Has anyone from HBT ever been busted for making too much beer?

Probably not. However, it isn't wise to admit you have made more beer than you are allowed to make like some people do here.

The lawyer fees should be a big enough deterrent to keep quiet about your volume of production.
 
MisterTipsy said:
Has anyone from HBT ever been busted for making too much beer?

Probably not. However, it isn't wise to admit you have made more beer than you are allowed to make like some people do here.

The lawyer fees should be a big enough deterrent to keep quiet about your volume of production.
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As I stated before, anything posted on this forum is hear-say. I might just be totally lying everytime I post how many gallons I brewed in 2012 just to look good. No one can proove otherwise. If law enforcement tried to make a case based on what I post on an online forum I seriously doubt it would hold up in court. Now if I'm doing something shady like selling homebrew and I get caught, then they might be able to use my posts on this forum to help build on their case. So, unless your doing something like selling homebrew or something else that would get their attention I seriously doubt anyone would ever get in trouble for it. It would be too difficult for them to even prove how many batches I've brewed unless I had all of the beer still. Needless to say, I don't have all of the beer I've brewed in the last year still! :drunk:
 
Well I must say the wife and I enjoyed our 199.6 gallons of homebrew in the calendar year of 2011. Log that whoever.

Oh, and the extra grain I bought was used for birdseed, the yeast I made bread with and the hops was for moth control in the closet.
 
Stauffbier said:
As I stated before, anything posted on this forum is hear-say. I might just be totally lying everytime I post how many gallons I brewed in 2012 just to look good. No one can proove otherwise. If law enforcement tried to make a case based on what I post on an online forum I seriously doubt it would hold up in court. Now if I'm doing something shady like selling homebrew and I get caught, then they might be able to use my posts on this forum to help build on their case. So, unless your doing something like selling homebrew or something else that would get their attention I seriously doubt anyone would ever get in trouble for it. It would be too difficult for them to even prove how many batches I've brewed unless I had all of the beer still. Needless to say, I don't have all of the beer I've brewed in the last year still! :drunk:
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Not disagreeing with you, but I'd point out that confession is different than hear-say. I doubt it'd hold up without further evidence, but it's still different for you to admit it vs. me saying you did. And I doubt they'd pursue it at all, but I'd still rather not tempt it.
 
If you want to be technical, it's not hear say if you said it (and it can be proven whether you wrote it or not to a fairly high level of certainty). It would be hear say if I said you said it to me.
 
Qhrumphf said:
Not disagreeing with you, but I'd point out that confession is different than hear-say. I doubt it'd hold up without further evidence, but it's still different for you to admit it vs. me saying you did. And I doubt they'd pursue it at all, but I'd still rather not tempt it.
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But would posting on a social network be considered a legal confession? I honestly don't know if it would or not.
 
I don't know if it's legally a "confession" if you're not saying it to law enforcement, but I know it's definitely not hearsay. But if the use of social networks in sting operations (namely anti-terror stuff, not that I'm comparing that to homebrew) is any indication, what you post on a forum can indeed be used against you.
 
Airborneguy said:
If you want to be technical, it's not hear say if you said it (and it can be proven whether you wrote it or not to a fairly high level of certainty). It would be hear say if I said you said it to me.
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Fair enough, but I still think it's far fetched that a DA would prosecute someone based on the fact he/she said they brewed X amount of beer on an online forum without some evidence to actually prove that they did..
 
Stauffbier said:
Fair enough, but I still think it's far fetched that a DA would prosecute someone based on the fact he/she said they brewed X amount of beer on a online forum without some evidence to actually prove that they did..
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I entirely agree with you that it's farfetched they'd care what you posted on an online forum unless it was part of something bigger. But I'd still rather not tempt them by admitting it publicly regardless.
 
So do I. I was just pointing out the difference between hearsay and weak evidence. Hearsay is a specific legal term referring to third party information. While internet postings for the most part need to be corroborated with other evidence, if the post came from the subject under investigation, it's not hearsay.
 
Let's say for example someone says they made 500 gallons of home brew and they have thousands of posts indicating they are making a lot of beer. Let's also say that actually got the attention of the Feds (not very likely). Let's also say that you have purchased enough brewing supplies to actually make 500 gallons of home brew. Unless you paid cash for all your supplies, they have more than enough on you to press charges.

Now you have to pay for a lawyer to defend yourself. You might "win" your case, but the money you had to spend to defend yourself is insane.
 
We've brewed, and consumed, well in excess of 200 gallons each and every year that we've been homebrewing! One good thing about that is that we've been too drunk to care what anybody thinks about it, lol!
 
Stauffbier said:
But would posting on a social network be considered a legal confession? I honestly don't know if it would or not.
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People get busted for bragging about crimes on Facebook all the time. Making statements of illegal behavior online is enough for the cops to start an investigation.
 
Airborneguy said:
So do I. I was just pointing out the difference between hearsay and weak evidence. Hearsay is a specific legal term referring to third party information. While internet postings for the most part need to be corroborated with other evidence, if the post came from the subject under investigation, it's not hearsay.
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Obviously my use of the term "hear-say" was incorrect, but I think you know what I was getting at...

MisterTipsy said:
Let's say for example someone says they made 500 gallons of home brew and they have thousands of posts indicating they are making a lot of beer. Let's also say that actually got the attention of the Feds (not very likely). Let's also say that you have purchased enough brewing supplies to actually make 500 gallons of home brew. Unless you paid cash for all your supplies, they have more than enough on you to press charges.Now you have to pay for a lawyer to defend yourself. You might "win" your case, but the money you had to spend to defend yourself is insane.
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I suppose you're right, but chances are you already caught the feds attention if they're looking at your posts on a homebrewing forum. If you've already caught their attention, then you probably are doing something illegal enough for them to care.

In the end, none of this really matters, because I'm sure all of us stick to the legal guidelines of homebrewing. :D
 
I've always thought since I learned to brew @ home if I ended up in the "slammer" I will have a valuable ability... to brew up some "type" of fermented beverage and trade if for smokes (even though I don't) in the yard lol!
 
MisterTipsy said:
People get busted for bragging about crimes on Facebook all the time. Making statements of illegal behavior online is enough for the cops to start an investigation.
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Yeah, but is that because somebody is constantly monitoring every post on facebook, or because a person was already being investigated for something and feds decided to look at their facebook account?
 
BradleyBrew said:
I've always thought since I learned to brew @ home if I ended up in the "slammer" I will have a valuable ability... to brew up some "type" of fermented beverage and trade if for smokes (even though I don't) in the yard lol!
Click to expand...

Knowledge is power! :cross:
 
Stauffbier said:
In the end, none of this really matters, because I'm sure all of us stick to the legal guidelines of homebrewing. :D
Click to expand...


All I'm saying is if you make more than the limit, you should keep that info to yourself.

If you illegally grew pot at home would you tell people about it online? Some people do and they get busted for it. Doh! :drunk:
 
Stauffbier said:
Yeah, but is that because somebody is constantly monitoring every post on facebook, or because a person was already being investigated for something and feds decided to look at their facebook account?
Click to expand...

I was actually reading an article today that Facebook employs a series of automated text interpreters that, if it picks up on enough red flags sends it to a staffer who then uses whatever set of criterion to determine if they need to pass it along to the police. So yeah, they can be assumed to monitor every post.

:cross:
 
Qhrumphf said:
I was actually reading an article today that Facebook employs a series of automated text interpreters that, if it picks up on enough red flags sends it to a staffer who then uses whatever set of criterion to determine if they need to pass it along to the police. So yeah, they can be assumed to monitor every post.

:cross:
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I should have known! Big brother is watching!
 
Stauffbier said:
Yeah, but is that because somebody is constantly monitoring every post on facebook, or because a person was already being investigated for something and feds decided to look at their facebook account?
Click to expand...

It could be either of those. It could also be because one of their "friends" ratted them out.

The same could happen here. Let's say the guy who made 500 gallons of beer pissed off someone here. Nothing prevents him from alerting the authorities about the alleged illegal behavior. The authorities would have to look into it.
 
I can say I've brewed 500 gallons a year if I want, but that's just hear-say. They'd still have to prove that I did, either way
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All they would have to do is look through my brew-log to get exact volumes and dates.
 
Stauffbier said:
I can't argue with that! No shortage of idiots sharing all of their dirty laundry in the world these days!
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I love the dipsh!ts that post on FB "Facebook is stealing your information again!!!!"

Ah, the amount of stuff that Facebook steals that you don't give them = 0.
 
Well...... With all of this said, I'm slowly getting closer to my limit, so I better find me a roommate over 21 :cross:
 

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