Why I secondary - drinking from the bottle

So my biggest pet peeve with homebrew had been that I couldn't drink it from the bottle. Yes this sounds petty, but when you don't homebrew you just have a beer and pitch the bottle. Dead simple. Nothing to clean, nothing to do. Then you're homebrewing and it is, pour the beer, rinse the bottle, save the bottle, drink the beer, wash the glass.

For one of my porters I thought, what the heck, I'll just do a secondary. After two weeks in the primary, I let that one sit in the secondary for four weeks. I primed and bottled. It is shiny and clear (to the extent that a porter can be) and with a trivial amount of settlement in the bottle - comparable to what you find in a commercial bottle-conditioned beer like bells.

Now I'm happy and drinking from bottle again - all thanks to my secondary!

I do a secondary because I like to bulk age for up to 6 months some of my beers, depending on the style and ABV. Clarity does indeed improve, but I prefer the flavor profile too.

For me, pouring a beer into a glass (homebrewed or otherwise) is all about getting the taste of the beer. If it's bottle-contitioned, then leaving the yeast behind is also important, but it's more about getting all the taste and aroma out of my beverage. In fact, I don't like drinking out of a bottle; It just tastes and smells better out of a glass.

Also, you can get clear beer without leaving the primary fermenter. If you're able, you can cold-crash and it will all drop out in the primary. Even if you can't refrigerate, with a yeast that flocs decently, you can let it sit in the primary for 4-5 weeks without any adverse affects on flavor.

RobertRGeorge said:

I do a secondary because I like to bulk age for up to 6 months some of my beers, depending on the style and ABV. Clarity does indeed improve, but I prefer the flavor profile too.

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Are you mostly aging say 1.065-70+ beers? I've often wondered if it would do a bit of good to age a more standard (say 1.045-60) malt-forward beer.

progmac said:

Are you mostly aging say 1.065-70+ beers? I've often wondered if it would do a bit of good to age a more standard (say 1.045-60) malt-forward beer.

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Yes, these beers are up there, sometimes as high as 85 (21 Plato). Having said that, I like to age the standard beers at least 30 days (.082 year--grin) and sometimes 3 months. I find the flavor significantly improved. Caveat is to keep the temperature below 65F for ales (18C for you metric types)

I'd still never prefer to drink from a bottle. And to be honest, you *could* drink most homebrew from the bottle without a problem if your process is tweaked.

And I"' still not sure I understand what you do... Are you saying that you bottle homebrew and then drink form the bottle and toss the bottle? Seems like an awful waste of time when you could simply drink from the bottle and then rinse it out and set it aside for the next bottling session. If you toss it you still have to clean a bottle somewhere, and if you buy new, you have to spend $$ on new bottles.

**Disclaimer: I live in a state with bottle deposit, so I can buy returnables for 10 cents each and tossing a bottle is practically unheard of.

Why does secondarying mean you can or can't drink out of the bottle? After my usual minimum month in primary I could drink out of the bottle as well if I wanted to. Which I wouldn't.

It's not the act of secondarying or not that's doing it, it's the TIME you're letting the beer clear. You could just as easily achieve the same end with the 6 weeks you are doing in the primary.

Why does using a secondary make beer clearer? Is it that you're getting more sediment when siphoning to your bottling bucket when you're doing so from the primary? I get very little sediment when I siphon over.

The main reason I pour my beer into a glass is to better appreciate the aroma of the beer and thereby enhance the flavor. I do it for all beers, homebrew or otherwise and definitely appreciate the difference!

Revvy said:

It's not the act of secondarying or not that's doing it, it's the TIME you're letting the beer clear. You could just as easily achieve the same end with the 6 weeks you are doing in the primary.

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furthermore, by racking to secondary you're kicking things up again and undoing some of the settling that had already occurred in primary.

...and cue the secondary/no secondary debate...

Keg it and forget the damn bottles

Revvy said:

Why does secondarying mean you can or can't drink out of the bottle? After my usual minimum month in primary I could drink out of the bottle as well if I wanted to. Which I wouldn't.

It's not the act of secondarying or not that's doing it, it's the TIME you're letting the beer clear. You could just as easily achieve the same end with the 6 weeks you are doing in the primary.

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If I do 2+2 (primary, secondary) versus 4 (primary), the beer that went in the secondary is always clearer with less sediment. if it weren't, i wouldn't.

however i can't eliminate the possibility that this is because with a primary only, there is much more yeast and trub to get kicked up when i move the carboy before siphoning to the bottling bucket.

And I can't remove the trub adequately with my brewing style (pour boiler contents into primary, strain hops out) so I ether let it settle overnight in an oversize carboy and syphon it the next morning, or I get it out of the primary in about 5 to 7 days. Sitting on the trub too long can create off-flavors (or so I hear).

You could apply OP's logic to the whole concept of homebrewing and end up not homebrewing at all.

ReverseApacheMaster said:

You could apply OP's logic to the whole concept of homebrewing and end up not homebrewing at all.

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I guess I am the only one who finds drinking from the bottle to be acceptable and convenient!

In the OP's case I think they could just primary if they're going to leave it for so long, but BYO/Basic Brewing experiments did show that beer cleared faster when transferred to secondary. So that would be one benefit to secondary.

progmac said:

I guess I am the only one who finds drinking from the bottle to be acceptable and convenient!

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Nah, I prefer it too. But that preference is entirely based on a learned behavior, fostered over all the years I've been drinking beer. Basically I just always have drank beer from a bottle, and using a glass is weird to me, it changes the entire way I consume beer.

I catch myself sometimes dreaming up ways to make my beer like consumer level beer, without all the expensive industrial processing involved, but the inevitable conclusion is that it's just easier to pour into a glass.

Although I do know there is an australian company that makes special "bottle caps" that allow you to ferment in upside down beer bottles. And it traps the sediment in the cap, so when you pull the beer out of the fridge, ta da, settlement free beer in the bottle.

nulfis said:

Although I do know there is an australian company that makes special "bottle caps" that allow you to ferment in upside down beer bottles. And it traps the sediment in the cap, so when you pull the beer out of the fridge, ta da, settlement free beer in the bottle.

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all you have to do is find a way to store your beer bottles upside down!:cross:

"First medicinal wine from a teaspoon, then beer from a bottle!"
--"Professor" Harold Hill
The Music Man

ok, but you really only saved yourself one step.. cleaning a glass. you still need to rinse your bottles lol. i was kinda the same way when i started, but now i must have a glass. i love being able to see my beer. i even use a glass if im drinking garbage can beer now to!!

huhwha said:

Keg it and forget the damn bottles

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I spent a nice chunk of cash getting set up with a three tap perlick tower. Now I'm bottling again. I travel too much and a couple lines keep picking up an infection sitting for extended period without use.

Back to topic. Secondary if you use fining agents or lager I guess, but I just leave six weeks in primary then keg or bottle. Sometimes I like cloudy beer for the same reason I like french press coffee. But I only drink crap beer at bbq's (not mine) out of a bottle.

Not directed solely at the OP, but partially and for all you winos out there...

Do you drink wine straight from the bottle? No, you pour it into a glass. Why? Because it gives you the opportunity to enjoy ALL the senses you can, and manipulate the beer/wine a little yourself (i.e. holding it to warm it up a little, swirling to get the nose, gazing longingly at its awesomeness, etc.). This is one of the main reasons I make beer. The ESBs, browns, and porters I make aren't supposed to be had at fridge temps (well, not all the time anyways) and the easiest way I can get it up to temp is by pouring it in a glass that's conducive to warming, and manipulating it like a wine glass.

Granted, there are times I drink my brew straight from the bottle (ordinary bitters/ stuff less then 5% and meant to be drunk COLD), but those I can because of the longer primary/conditioning times listed here.

I guess the final result here is patience, respect for the craft (when it should be respected), and YMMV. But if you're making a beer good enough to savor, for God's sake savor it! Enjoy it like it's supposed to be enjoyed, not just sucked down like the tequila from last year's Spring Break in Cabo.

#22 Well said sir! I love to gaze at the awesomeness of my brew!

There is many options if you want to drink from a bottle (I prefer a glass). Keg and beer gun, the expensive option or cold crash and use stopper for the sediment (storing your beer upside down)... you'll get little sediment and the sediment will go with the cap

progmac said:

If I do 2+2 (primary, secondary) versus 4 (primary), the beer that went in the secondary is always clearer with less sediment. if it weren't, i wouldn't.

however i can't eliminate the possibility that this is because with a primary only, there is much more yeast and trub to get kicked up when i move the carboy before siphoning to the bottling bucket.

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Even if you are kicking up less by moving the beer to another vessel, there's no reason to leave it there for 2 weeks. Whatever you stirred up by moving it will drop out after a day or 2, especially if you keep it at crashing temps.

You could just as easily do 4 weeks in the first vessel, rack off the crud, and keep the second vessel at crashing temp for a day or two and you're good. Less exposure to oxygen in secondary that way.

A lot of this debate depends on process too. If you transfer with the intent of leaving a half gallon or so in the primary so you don't get all the crud with it, you can get really clear beer right out of primary. I do 4 weeks in primary, cold crash for the last 3 or 4 days, rack to a keg and carbonate. I've never had an issue with tons of cloudy beer coming out of the tap. Then you can make or buy a beer gun and have as many clear beers from the bottle as you wish =)

JesperX said:

Even if you are kicking up less by moving the beer to another vessel, there's no reason to leave it there for 2 weeks. Whatever you stirred up by moving it will drop out after a day or 2, especially if you keep it at crashing temps.

You could just as easily do 4 weeks in the first vessel, rack off the crud, and keep the second vessel at crashing temp for a day or two and you're good. Less exposure to oxygen in secondary that way.

A lot of this debate depends on process too. If you transfer with the intent of leaving a half gallon or so in the primary so you don't get all the crud with it, you can get really clear beer right out of primary. I do 4 weeks in primary, cold crash for the last 3 or 4 days, rack to a keg and carbonate. I've never had an issue with tons of cloudy beer coming out of the tap. Then you can make or buy a beer gun and have as many clear beers from the bottle as you wish =)

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once i get my fermentation chamber up an running, i think i will secondary less...because i will be able to cold crash. right now this isn't an option for me.

macleod319 said:

Not directed solely at the OP, but partially and for all you winos out there...

Do you drink wine straight from the bottle? No, you pour it into a glass. Why? Because it gives you the opportunity to enjoy ALL the senses....

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Speak for yourself!

I disagree about the 2+2 being clearer than an extended primary, if you're careful when you rack, they're pretty much identical in result. I personally rack to a keg at 3 weeks, add gelatin and cold crash when I feel the need for a crystal clear beer. I don't even waste the half gallon leftovers, I siphon them carefully into a 2L swingtop and cold crash it, then use it to make a six pack version of the kegged beer

progmac said:

I guess I am the only one who finds drinking from the bottle to be acceptable and convenient!

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There are times when a glass just plain isn't convenient.

Out in the boat I drink from the bottle. An open cup would too easily spill. Plus any bottle sediment is well distributed in the beer by the time it is opened.

When I attend a cooler-allowed concert I drink from the bottle. And sediment is also disturbed after being hauled in a cooler up and down steps, etc, so a cup pour wouldn't leave much behind.