Suggestions Wanted for Barleywine Recipe Made for LONG Aging

I want to brew a barleywine that I can bottle age for a very long time... 10+ years

Unfortunately, I haven't brewed a barleywine yet. The following is what I was thinking...feedback is much appreciated:

Batch Size: 5.5 gallons
Estimated OG: 1.113
IBU: 82
SRM: 18.2
Estimated FG: 1.020
Est ABV: 12.4%

20lbs Maris Otter Pale Malt
3lbs 60L Crystal Malt
Mash for 60 minutes at 149F
Batch Sparge at 168F

90min boil with following additions:
2oz Warrior at 90 min
2oz Goldings at 15 min
(Wondering if the beta % in these is high enough to stand up to the aging)

1 liter yeast starter (according to beersmith) using 1 package of London Ale Yeast (Wyeast #1028)
Oxygenate using one of the stir oxygenators on a drill (sorry, can't remember the name of these and don't own one yet)
Yeast Nutrient

Leave in Primary for 21 days at 60 degrees using kegerator for temp control (thinking about increasing to 70 after first 10 days???)
Dry hop in primary with 5 days left (on day 16) using:
0.5 oz Centennial
0.5 oz Chinook
0.5 oz Simcoe
(Thinking of increasing all of these to 1oz each since I will be buying them by the ounce anyway???)

Bottle using 4.5oz corn sugar for priming. (this is according to beersmith)

Any suggestions are welcome!!!

anyone?

I would brew low OG Bitter before this and then dump on the yeast cake.

Instead of dry hopping, I would use those hops late in the boil. I think you would retain their character more after a long storage than in a dry hop.

This looks like an English-style Barleywine, the dry hops you have listed don't really fit with that theme.

Also, you will probably want to let it sit in primary more than 21 days. A big beer like that probably needs longer to ferment and clean up.

chri5 said:

Instead of dry hopping, I would use those hops late in the boil. I think you would retain their character more after a long storage than in a dry hop.

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This. I dry hoped my barleywine last summer and it has next to no cascade aroma I dh'd with. I used 4 oz for 2 weeks.

You should get a hold of the book Barley Wine from the Classic Beer Style Series by Fal Allen and Dick Cantwell. Read it twice before trying to brew one. You can read it in a couple hours probably and it will shed light on a lot of things to consider. BW isn't like regular beer and you should learn more before whipping up a recipe and hoping it's good 10 years from now.

gdwolfe273 said:

1 liter yeast starter (according to beersmith) using 1 package of London Ale Yeast (Wyeast #1028)

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BS is lying to you then, that's well underpitched, esp with something like 1028 that is already going to struggle to finish this off. you need at least 3x that, i'd go with chri5's suggestion of brewing a bitter (or the like) first.

I'd drop at least 1lb of crystal, 3lbs is a ton.

I wouldn't bother with the dry hop if you plan on aging it that long, there'll be nothing left.

1028 is what I am planing on using in my BW as well. Wyeast states it can handle up to 11% and its one in my bank. I'd go with what the other guys already said and brew a smaller beer first as a starter then pitch onto that and rig up a blow off tube as its going to be a volcano for the first few days. What kinds of yeast would you guys recommend for a larger ABV?

i just brewed my first BW and included an Irish red parti-gyle with it

mashed in, mashed out, took first 1/3 of runnings for my BW

sparged, capped and took the rest of the runnings for the red.

1.090 OG, aerated, pitched a single vial of WLP005 and it chewed thru it like a mofo. FG into secondary was 1.020. tasted AWESOME

bottling it soon.

another 2 weeks in the bottle for the Irish red, in time for St. Paddy's Day

A single vial for a 1.090? Wow! I can't believe how well that attenuated for you. Some would call that massively under-pitching and probably produced a ton of esters from the pitch rate. How's it tasting. The ester production could of worked in your favor though depending on the recipe.

TahoeRy said:

A single vial for a 1.090? Wow! I can't believe how well that attenuated for you. Some would call that massively under-pitching and probably produced a ton of esters from the pitch rate. How's it tasting. The ester production could of worked in your favor though depending on the recipe.

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tasted awesome! I'm not a big fan of BW, but my club has a monthly competition and December's style is BW, thought I would try one. and my MLT is 70qt, can handle the big beers.

simple grain bill: 13 lbs MO and 1 lb each of Munich and Victory

English hops, Fuggles, NB (ok, this is German) and EKG

Lyle's Golden Syrup at FO. think that helped the attenuation a bit

GrogNerd said:

1.090 OG, aerated, pitched a single vial of WLP005 and it chewed thru it like a mofo. FG into secondary was 1.020.

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I would consider it lucky that your fermentation worked so well. I've seen vials fail to ferment much smaller beers than that before.

chri5 said:

I would consider it lucky that your fermentation worked so well. I've seen vials fail to ferment much smaller beers than that before.

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not that I've had that much experience, but all my beers have done just fine with one vial.

after chilling, I pour 2.5 gallons into ferment bucket (in the case of the BW that was the full batch) and hit it with a paint mixer attached to a power drill.

aerates the EFFIN' BEHEEBUS out of it. makes for happy yeast.

With a 2.5 gallon batch one vial isn't nearly as bad.

A 5-gallon batch at 1.090 with one vial...I'd bet it would have stalled or not started. That would be underpitching by at least 1/3.

chri5 said:

I would consider it lucky that your fermentation worked so well. I've seen vials fail to ferment much smaller beers than that before.

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Unfortunately there are a ton of inconsistencies in brewing. I recently brewed a light lager using one smack pack and it turned out awesome. Everything I've read says to use a 3-4 liter starter or you'll have problems. For me it comes down to being "better safe than sorry...time permitting!"

Thanks for all the awesome suggestions so far! Three follow up questions (one of which someone else already started asking):

1.) what is a good yeast for the high ABV barleywine to use in the bitter?
2.) I have no experience washing the yeast. Is this absolutely necessary if I time the barleywine to be brewed right when the bitter is done in the primary?
3.) someone mentioned to lengthen time in the primary...any suggestions for a time frame? 2 months? 3?

I am not looking to brew this tomorrow...possibly around June. So I have time to read up on it. I am expecting a kid soon and like the idea of doing the drink a bottle every year on their birthday until they are 21 and then hoping it isn't horrible by then so we can share one (cheesy I know...but it involves beer). I plan on using O2 absorbing caps, wax seals, and good storage conditions as well.

Thanks again!

gdwolfe273 said:

drink a bottle every year on their birthday until they are 21 and then hoping it isn't horrible by then so we can share one (cheesy I know...but it involves beer)

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not cheesy. used to be quite common. at least among nobility

Radical Brewing talks about this in a section about "Double" beers.

a normal sized beer is mashed and runnings are heated to STRIKE temps and used for a strike in another normal beer-sized mash resulting in a double mash

bobbrewedit said:

Unfortunately there are a ton of inconsistencies in brewing. I recently brewed a light lager using one smack pack and it turned out awesome. Everything I've read says to use a 3-4 liter starter or you'll have problems. For me it comes down to being "better safe than sorry...time permitting!"

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I've never had a problem with a smack pack, or even the dried safale yeasts. Only vials without a starter. The others have more than enough yeast cells for a 5-gallon batch of all but really strong barleywines or RISs.

Definitely agree on the different advice out there. I think that is a large part of what makes it confusing for people to first get started in home brewing.

chri5 said:

I've never had a problem with a smack pack, or even the dried safale yeasts. Only vials without a starter. The others have more than enough yeast cells for a 5-gallon batch of all but really strong barleywines or RISs.

Definitely agree on the different advice out there. I think that is a large part of what makes it confusing for people to first get started in home brewing.

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the vials I had were also dated "best by 5/16/2013" and I bought them on 1/19/2013. isn't the package date 4 months prior to best-by date?

I doubt that they were only 3 days old, but they had to be pretty fresh

gdwolfe273 said:

Thanks for all the awesome suggestions so far! Three follow up questions (one of which someone else already started asking):

1.) what is a good yeast for the high ABV barleywine to use in the bitter?

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I would use Wyeast 1028 since you have an English style. Works well in high-abv, and should have the character you want in a Bitter.

2.) I have no experience washing the yeast. Is this absolutely necessary if I time the barleywine to be brewed right when the bitter is done in the primary?

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Time it right to where you rack the Bitter off the yeast cake the same day you brew the Barleywine. If you keg this is easy. If you bottle, then just plan for a long brewday. No need to wash the yeast in this case.

3.) someone mentioned to lengthen time in the primary...any suggestions for a time frame? 2 months? 3?

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I would leave it in primary for a solid two months. Nothing bad will come of it, and you'll know that the yeast had plenty of time to work through anything they left behind. After that you can either bulk age, or bottle.

GrogNerd said:

the vials I had were also dated "best by 5/16/2013" and I bought them on 1/19/2013. isn't the package date 4 months prior to best-by date?

I doubt that they were only 3 days old, but they had to be pretty fresh

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I've gotten ones like that too. They could really be that fresh if the LHBS just got a shipment in.

gdwolfe273 said:

1.) what is a good yeast for the high ABV barleywine to use in the bitter?
2.) I have no experience washing the yeast. Is this absolutely necessary if I time the barleywine to be brewed right when the bitter is done in the primary?
3.) someone mentioned to lengthen time in the primary...any suggestions for a time frame? 2 months? 3?

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1) 1028 will probably be OK to get to 12% as long as you treat it right (pitch alot and plenty of O2/nutrient). if you wanted to stick UK yeast, nottingham or 007 & 028 (or whatever their wyeast equivalents are) would have no problem with the abv, but wouldn't make as good of bitters.

2) no need to wash, just scoop out what you need (2 cups or so) or rack onto the cake

3) depends how soon you plan on drinking it. i find bulk aging conditions it quicker, but if you don't plan on cracking a bottle til next year your plan of a 3 week primary is fine. it'll certainly be done fermenting by then and should be pretty clear as well, more time will just contribute to softening the heat quicker.

it'll probably be fine, but as a precaution i'd extend any mash <150 to 90mins. plus the longer time will help break down more of the longer chains into a more fermentable wort and thus easier to attain desired FG