ANOTHER mass shooting?

Thirdeye, this needs to stop right now. HBT is not about slamming other countries or the people from them. We are better than that.

wow... out of line.

orfy's a stand up guy m8....

Interesting who's getting taken to task, here.

Rick

it's an interesting topic.


in your eye, who is getting taken to task, and how does it interest you?

the internets makes for some tuff communication at times.

in a public house, the last exchange, with the tea and revolution comments, would have resulted in fisticuffs, not shooting....

uglygoat said:

word.

men used to settle their disputes with their fists, my old man did, as did his, as did us boys. never had a gun, never felt the need to have one.

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"God created man, Sam Colt made them equal"

I'm not in any way suggesting that a gun is the best way to settle a dispute, but sometimes it's the ONLY way.

Yes men used to settle disputes with their fists...which meant that if you were nto big enough, strong enough, mean enough, or a good enough fighter, you had no rights.

Imagine if the best fistfighter could go anywhere he wanted and do anything he pleased..kill, rape, steal.. and no one could do anything about it, because they couldn't physically stop him.

He knocks on your door, you open it and he punches you in the face. Then he proceeds to rape your wife and daughter, takes everything you have, and leaves. Things like that used to happen in days of old. Along comes guns. Now, when I have a gun to protect myself, I can be 5'1" tall weigh 98 pounds and be blind in one eye, and STILL stop Mr Badguy from doing what he likes.

Yes, I know it's not the old west, and we now have 911 etc etc. But when the crack addict decides to smash in your door, and do/take/hurt what he wants, calling the police isn't going to stop him/her, but a .45 ACP round anywhere in the body is going to stop them. Hopefully, just the sight of a gun in your hand will be enough to make them run, so no shots need be fired. Just make sure that if you decide to own a gun, and use it in self defense, that you are prepared to pull the trigger if need be, otherwise you might as well be holding a sandwich.

Contrary to the beliefs of some "Might Makes Right" is not acceptable!

RichBrewer said:

Thirdeye, this needs to stop right now. HBT is not about slamming other countries or the people from them. We are better than that.

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Well, the guy did ask me if I wanted to "take it outside". Was I supposed to say nothing?
Okay, Im done. I dont want this thread getting locked. Ofry, and everyone else offended by my comments, my sincerest apologies.

how many crack heads do you have busting down your door in canberra? i've lived in a tough, poverty stricken city for the duration of my formative years, and during most of my adulthood, and i've never come across your scenario. nor have i ever needed a fire arm to protect myself or my family, or solve my problems. a few arse kickings have been good enough to take care of our troubles.

i don't advocate gun control, nor do i see a need for myself to have one. live by the sword die by the sword... etc.

edit: i'm not offended by your comments thrideye. just thought they were misplaced. pretty sure orfy was making a point, and not chanllenging you to a fist fight, which he'd likely win.... :OP

uglygoat said:

how many crack heads do you have busting down your door in canberra? i've lived in a tough, poverty stricken city for the duration of my formative years, and during most of my adulthood, and i've never come across your scenario. nor have i ever needed a fire arm to protect myself or my family, or solve my problems. a few arse kickings have been good enough to take care of our troubles.

i don't advocate gun control, nor do i see a need for myself to have one. live by the sword die by the sword... etc.

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Well, with all due respect, Ive never needed the fire extinguisher thats under my kitchen sink, but it is there nonetheless.

But of course you have the right to make your own decisions in that regard.

we see things differently. as you sleep at ease each night, knowing your gun protects you, i sleep as soundly knowing i don't worry about it.

Personal attacks ruin threads like this thirdeye. If someone differs in opinion, respect their right to their opinion. I am sure Orfy was being tongue in cheek with his "take it outside" comment. As I stated earlier, there are some great ideas/opinions being put up here, lets keep it educational and listen to what the other guy has to say.

People thinking only their line of reasoning is right is probably part of the reason these things are happening.

Pugilist said:

Personal attacks ruin threads like this thirdeye. If someone differs in opinion, respect their right to their opinion. I am sure Orfy was being tongue in cheek with his "take it outside" comment. As I stated earlier, there are some great ideas/opinions being put up here, lets keep it educational and listen to what the other guy has to say.

People thinking only their line of reasoning is right is probably part of the reason these things are happening.

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Thanks for the lecture buddy! Unfortunately, youre a few posts late.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showpost.php?p=559543&postcount=86

feck... i don't have a fire extinguisher in my house either, nor have i ever had one....

Oh I don't have time to read the whole thread but I figured I'd put my 2 cents in anyways.... it seems like we are in a bit of an agreement though, and this comes from what a lot of people would consider a "liberal"... gun control laws only hurt the law abiding citizen.

Here in Texas you have to pass a VERY stringent background check to be able to carry concealed. No felonies, no misdemeanors, no substance abuse, no psych problems, etc. You are fingerprinted and both the local and FBI run checks. This is after 10 hours of training and a written and practical exam.

CHL holders tend to be the most law abiding citizens out there (at least in Texas) due to the process to obtain the privilege.

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And if I lived in a state that allowed it, I'd have one... would I carry all the time... probably not, but it sure seems there is becoming more and more of a need.
The thing is, if the criminals are the only ones with the guns who's to stop them from doing whatever they want, you can't have a police officer on every corner(which brings up another bag of worms.)

Basically people don't like getting shot. This goes for criminals and law abiding citizens alike. If there is a damn good chance the person is going to get shot back at right away they will think a lot more before carrying out something like this.

Ib4tl!!!!!

z987k said:

Oh I don't have time to read the whole thread but I figured I'd put my 2 cents in anyways.... it seems like we are in a bit of an agreement though, and this comes from what a lot of people would consider a "liberal"... gun control laws only hurt the law abiding citizen.


And if I lived in a state that allowed it, I'd have one... would I carry all the time... probably not, but it sure seems there is becoming more and more of a need.
The thing is, if the criminals are the only ones with the guns who's to stop them from doing whatever they want, you can't have a police officer on every corner(which brings up another bag of worms.)

Basically people don't like getting shot. This goes for criminals and law abiding citizens alike. If there is a damn good chance the person is going to get shot back at right away they will think a lot more before carrying out something like this.

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Ya know, I am one of the most socially liberal people you will ever meet. However, I hardly EVER vote that way and the number one reason is liberal politicians and their "feel good" gun laws. Look at D.C. Even with the gun ban, its still one of the most violent cities in the country. Most gun control laws only empower criminals.

Its funny that youre from Illinois. I was accepted to grad school there at UI Urbana Champagne, into the physics department for condensed matter, number one ranked condensed matter physics school in the country.

Turned it down, simply bc of the gun laws.

condensed matter? like lead hitting solid skull?, i mean bone matter... :rockin:

uglygoat said:

condensed matter? like lead hitting solid skull? :rockin:

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Not exactly. Lead hitting solid skull is more of a macroscopic, classical physics problem. May have been an interesting problem in Newton's time but not anymore!

'Nuff Said.


Not mine, but my buddies collection. My personal colection is slightly smaller.

This post has nothing to add to the thread, but as a gun owner, CCW holder and hunter, I just wanted to be IN.

Thanks,
Have a great evening,
Rich

i think i was pawnd...

damned my not knowing phsyics, or owning an arsenal!!!!!!!

i know how yeast works on sugar based soulitons...

Thirdeye said:

Ya know, I am one of the most socially liberal people you will ever meet. However, I hardly EVER vote that way and the number one reason is liberal politicians and their "feel good" gun laws. Look at D.C. Even with the gun ban, its still one of the most violent cities in the country. Most gun control laws only empower criminals.

Its funny that youre from Illinois. I was accepted to grad school there at UI Urbana Champagne, into the physics department for condensed matter, number one ranked condensed matter physics school in the country.

Turned it down, simply bc of the gun laws.

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that seems like a funny reason to turn down grad school. I mean you can move away as soon as your done.... I know I'm going to get the hell out of this state as soon as I can.... but not because of gun laws.

BTW, I am from UIUC.... where the shooter went to grad school so we're hearing all about this everywhere.

talleymonster said:

'Nuff Said.
Not mine, but my buddies collection. My personal colection is slightly smaller.

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Nice 1911 up there in the corner! Ive recently been bitten by that bug.

z987k said:

that seems like a funny reason to turn down grad school. I mean you can move away as soon as your done.... I know I'm going to get the hell out of this state as soon as I can.... but not because of gun laws.

BTW, I am from UIUC.... where the shooter went to grad school so we're hearing all about this everywhere.

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I never said I turned down grad school altogether. I had decent options.

seems like guns are pretty important to you

uglygoat said:

feck... i don't have a fire extinguisher in my house either, nor have i ever had one....

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I used to think the same thing until my house caught on fire, and had the propane guy not shown up and put it out, I would have been screwed.

Wow, I can't believe it, I'm IB4TL!!!!

My .02:

I own guns. They are hunting weapons. I own no handguns, though many of those are also used as hunting weapons.

Orfy, you said it yourself: Very few crimes are committed with legally owned guns. I think if we enacted some sort of gun control, the gun crimes wouldn't change, just the legality of the gun ownership.

And thirdeye, apparently all of your PHD education hasn't taught you how to be civil. If you can't voice your opinion nicely, then shut it.

z987k said:

that seems like a funny reason to turn down grad school. I mean you can move away as soon as your done.... I know I'm going to get the hell out of this state as soon as I can.... but not because of gun laws.

BTW, I am from UIUC.... where the shooter went to grad school so we're hearing all about this everywhere.

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I work at UIUC so I'm in the same area as z987k, and he's right, it is everywhere here. I'm really familiar with the NIU area, I spend some time up there at least once a year... It's just a shame. I'm about as apathetic as you can get, but this kinda thing is just a bad deal all around.
Life will always be there to kick you in the ass, it's just a fact. This kind of thing solves nothing.

donner said:

It's funny to hear all the people claim that all the problems with violence would be solved by removing the guns. I've lived in three states that allow its citizens to carry concealed weapons if they choose to and complete the required background checks and training. I've also lived in a state, oklahoma, where a guy with a grudge filled a Ryder Truck full of ammonia nitrate and diesel fuel and parked it outside the federal building.

Crazy people will always find a way to do the harm that they seek, be in through a gun, a knife, a truck or a subway in London.

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Excellent post, dead on right, and cuts thru the BS too. It's not the choice of weapon, it's the nutbag that wields any form of weapon for whatever reason their addled brain tells em' to.

Did I end a sentence with a preposition? I never could figure that one out...

Ize

uglygoat said:

how many crack heads do you have busting down your door in canberra?

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Not one! And I don't have a gun either, I was just making a point. People who live in those type of situations won't have much fun in a fistfight.

I need to get a gun. Seriously, just for home protection. Basically this post is IB4TL, but I'm not for increased gun control. I will say olllllo's words in threads like these often put things in perspective and coool everybody down. olllllo......?

Thirdeye.

The "take it outside" comment was to show how things can be handled without guns and weapons and in fact was relating that in this country 99.9% of the time violence is no gun related.
It was also to demonstrate that such statements can not be made without getting oneself in trouble. Saying such things would land you in a fight if said in most local bars in the UK.

I am not offended easily and not by your comments.
I 100% do not agree with what you said and thought they were out of line and over the top.

That's why I asked you to elaborate.

I appreciate the apology and understand you backing down.
I was not trying to make you do that. I just wanted you to substantiate your statement.
There are not many of us who live in a truly free country and I personally do not see how owning guns makes a country "Free"

Now before anyone jumps to conclusions about my position on fire arms you should know that whilst I do not think they should be readily available to the public in this country I do not own and in my current circumstances would not own any firearms, I do have certificates for marksmanship. I do occasional hunt for food and I used to instruct sessions using small bore rifles and shotguns.

landhoney said:

I need to get a gun. Seriously, just for home protection. Basically this post is IB4TL, but I'm not for increased gun control. I will say olllllo's words in threads like these often put things in perspective and coool everybody down. olllllo......?

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Ill tell you what, we had a guy talk in one of my classes that was in a wheel chair, from when a gang came into his house, put a shot gun to him and his wife.. Killed his wife and severed his spine.. After hearing about his ordeal, I will never not have a gun by my bed. Its just not worth the risk anymore with all the idiots out there.

There is the argument that criminals need guns because every one has guns.
Then there is the argument that if you both have guns then someone needs to shoot.

The average burglar over here may have a knife.
I can take on a knife with a 2x2 or just about anything
If I'm up against a gun I give in.

The laws are ****ed up here. If some one breaks into my house and the dogs bites the then I can be sued. I am not allowed to attack a burgular!!!
I come across an intruder in my house I will end up in jail because I will put him in hostpital (If he doesn't have a gun)

I may not agree with a gun culture and maybe glad we do not have one here but I respect everyone's views who see it as a right that they will not and do not want to give up.

==============================

On a side note about this thread.
No one is going to change anyones mind.

As long as we all understand that and it doesn't get personal again then I don't see a problem with it.

==========================

The real problem is now that when you legally kill the stupid bastards breaking into your house. The media and the liberals make sure you pay for it.

well put, orfy, but may still need another history lesson...

RE: Kennesaw GA (The town where every house is supposed to have a gun)

I don't think comparing a smallish town in GA to a suburb of Chicago is fair.

Prior to the law passing in the 80's I don't think there was a lot of gun violence in Kennesaw.
I think the law was passed in response to the violence in Atl. Like saying "not in our town".



For the record I am not for gun "control" and own a few myself. I am among the people who think that if guns were illegal only criminals would have them. (I would be 1 of them). I agree that differences should not be settled by weapons of any sort. However for protection they can't be beat.



I think at least 1 thing is being missed from this conversation. Guns can't be un-invented. Making them illegal will not get rid of them. That is particularly true in the USA there are just to many.

orfy said:

The laws are ****ed up here. If some one breaks into my house and the dogs bites the then I can be sued. I am not allowed to attack a burgular!!!
I come across an intruder in my house I will end up in jail because I will put him in hostpital (If he doesn't have a gun)

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What's up with that? Why has England emasculated their citizens and left them with fear of defending themselves against scum that would do them harm?

I for one do not understand why criminals in England have more rights and protection under the law than their victims. WTF?

Many states here in the US have put laws on the books that protect home owners from BS law suits from criminals (or their surviving families) who are killed or injured in the process of breaking into someone's home at night.

Most Americans have the right to use that 2x4 up side an intruders head and the dogs can have at em too. It's a shame that British people are forced to retreat and flee their house and allow the criminal to do as he pleases. I think the government has lost their minds in their proper role here as protector.

Remember that GUNS do not kill people, people kill people. Its the sick bastards out there with screwed up heads, weaklings really to go and shoot innocent people.

Not sure how to fix the problems but the guns are not the issue its the people using them.

orfy said:

The laws are ****ed up here. If some one breaks into my house and the dogs bites the then I can be sued. I am not allowed to attack a burgular!!!
I come across an intruder in my house I will end up in jail because I will put him in hostpital (If he doesn't have a gun)

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Same fckued up laws here, Orfy.

Bernie Brewer said:

Same fckued up laws here, Orfy.

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Not in Texas Bernie. Me & Mr. Mossberg will be just fine.