Starter vs Rehydration???

I was wondering if a starter has more benefit than rehydrating several dry packets?? I plan to start brewing "bigger" beers and want to plan accordingly. Like IIPA's and stronger lagers. My challenge is time. I have 4 kids under 4 years old. The SWMBO is understanding and all but I'm pushing it as is. Oh, I'm exact plus grains brewers today given the time crunch.
Thanks !

1. Starters for dry yeast is typically a no-no. Dry yeast is optimized to rehydrate and pitch. Pitching into a starter only depletes the nutrient reserves the yeast was packaged with.

2. The time investment versus cost of additional yeast sachets isn't worth the cost of dry yeast in my opinion.

In summary rehydrating and pitching multiple sachets is the way to go

mdgagne said:

1. Starters for dry yeast is typically a no-no. Dry yeast is optimized to rehydrate and pitch. Pitching into a starter only depletes the nutrient reserves the yeast was packaged with.

2. The time investment versus cost of additional yeast sachets isn't worth the cost of dry yeast in my opinion.

In summary rehydrating and pitching multiple sachets is the way to go

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I was actually asking about rehydrating lots of dry yeast instead of making a starter. Not trying to do a starter with dry yeast. Sorry if I didn't articulate that well.

use mrmalty.com's pitching rate calculator to figure out how much rehydrated yeast vs. how bit a starter for liquid yeast is needed, then make the call.

personally i would figure out which yeast i wanted to use first. dry is certainly lower maintenance, if it suits the style you're going for and keeping things simple is important then go with that. if you have both, and can do both, go with liquid. i like the results of liquid yeast better, when compared to the dry yeast equivalent. since you're making a big beer, you'll need a big starter and might even have to step it up so scheduling (getting is started in time) can be an issue.

A starter doesn't have to be high time maintanence, and if you have a 1.5 l wine bottle or 2l soda bottle you ahve a perfect container for a starter.

mdawson9 said:

I was actually asking about rehydrating lots of dry yeast instead of making a starter. Not trying to do a starter with dry yeast. Sorry if I didn't articulate that well.

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You can rehydrate multiple dry packs if you want. I'd run it through the Mr. Malty calculator to see just how many you need for the gravity.

I can see how a flask sitting on a stir plate on your kitchen countertop may not be a good idea with all those little kids around. If you use a freezer or fridge as a fermentation chamber, you could run it in there, of course.

mdgagne said:

1. Pitching into a starter only depletes the nutrient reserves...

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That starter IS the new nutrient reserve and if done properly will be more than adequate for the yeast.

Mr. Malty may estimate the cell count of a package of yeast high. The vendors suggest that each 11 gram pack has at least 70 billion. Counts I have done show 150 if dehydrated correctly, and Mr. Malty suggests 200 billion.

see here:
http://woodlandbrew.blogspot.com/2013/01/how-many-cells-are-in-package.html

I just did a starter on a pack of s-04. Why you ask? well 2 reasons

1. it was fairly old 'use before 1/2013' but dry yeast looses like 4% viablity per year in the fridge - liquid is like 10% per month iirc.
but really
2. I got a stirstarter for Christmas and wanted to play!!!

Measurements I have done show that viability doesn't drop much at all in the fridge. Although, bacteria and health are different issues.
Experiments:

http://woodlandbrew.blogspot.com/2012/12/refrigeration-effects-on-yeast-viability.html

The benefit is purely on your time and wallet. All a starter really does, particularly with dry yeast, is to increase your cell count. You could make an argument that it confirms yeast viability too, but I haven't heard a whole lot of reports of dry yeast packets never taking off.

Anyway, that said, you just have to evaluate whether it's worth it to you to spend a few bucks extra to pick up an extra packet of yeast when you need it (as stated above, go by mrmalty or yeastcalc, both good sources) or to invest a few more bucks up front in a stir plate and then use a buck or so worth of extract to get a starter going, and maybe 45 minutes of your time to boil, chill, and pitch it whenever you want to do a bigger brew.

For folks using liquid strains, where vials/smackpacks run $8-12 depending on your source, and a single vial/smackpack is rarely ever enough, this is kind of a no-brainer. For folks, like you, using dry strains, it's a closer call. Totally up to you.

LazySumo said:

That starter IS the new nutrient reserve and if done properly will be more than adequate for the yeast.

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This is a common point of contention that is caused by a broad definition of terms. The "nutrience reserves" in dry yeast typically refers to glycogen and sterol content (kind of like yeast fat). Because the yeast are dehydrated when these are at a peak they are relitivly high. Wort "nutrients" are primarily sugars (yeast food)

When dry yeast is added to wort they start using some of the glycogen and will not start to build them up again until they prepare for dormency. (read Fix, Principles of brewing science) for details.

However, either with pitching the yeast dry, or getting it going in a starter is fine. You'll have plenty of healthy happy yeast.