All-Grain to Extract Conversion help (Goose Island Green Line Clone)

Hello all,

My first brew is chilling in the fridge awaiting my first taste, and thoughts are beginning to turn to Brew#2 (hopefully this weekend).

I'd love to clone, or at least come close to, Goose Island's Green Line Pale Ale and I found this recipe on Hopville:

8.5 lbs American Two-Row Pale
1 lb Biscuit Malt (pale)

30 mins 0.5oz Simcoe pellet (13.0 AA)
15 mins 0.5oz Liberty pellet (4.0 AA)
10 mins 0.5oz Columbus pellet (15.4 AA)
1 min 1.0oz Amarillo pellet (7.0 AA)

Which gives OG 1.053, FG 1.013, and 29.9 IBU with an SRM of 4.

I'm going to be partial boiling with extract, and was hoping to do a late extract addition. I tried searching for easy ways to convert between all-grain and extract but got stumped when trying to adjust for late extract addition and partial boil at the same time. Normally I wouldn't mind the general +/- 20% rules on hops etc, but because it's a clone I'd like to at least get close. The only thread I could dig up was from 2008 and I wasn't sure if things had gotten more precise.

I appreciate any help anyone could give! I'm going to call it my "Green Card Pale Ale" and serve it at a party later this spring (with a "Red, Wit, and Blueberry" wheat) when I get my US Citizenship!

rifraf

So I found a calculator that I think works. For a 3g boil on a 5g batch it gives me:

1 lb Crystal 20L (steep)
1 lb Extra Light DME (@60 min)
5 lb Extra Light DME (@Flameout)

.3 oz Simcoe (@30 min)
.3 oz Liberty (@15)
.5 oz Columbus (@10)
1 oz Amarillo (@1)

OG: 1.056
FG: 1.014
IBU: 32.6
SRM: 6

A little more bitter/darker, but within the style guidelines for an American Pale Ale.

Does this seem like it'll work? Is Crystal 20L the right steeping grain to get a little biscuity flavor?

Thanks!

I would download the free trial of Beer Smith and use that to convert from all grain to extract. First things first, when you download it, watch a few of the video tutorials (they are only a couple minutes long each) and setup your equipment profile. It will save you time trying to figure it out for yourself and give you more accurate results in the end.

Check out this thread:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/need-help-cloning-recipe-213912/

I actually emailed Goose Island on this; they confirmed a few things:
100% Briess Pale Ale Malt (NOT 2-row, there is a difference) ...and no biscuit/carapils
Bittering w/Liberty at 30mins
Amarillo armoa addition right before knockout

So, based on their input and the recipes above, they said the recipe below should be a "reasonable facsimilie of Greenline"

10.5# Briess Pale Ale Malt
0.5oz Liberty (30min, 6 IBU)
0.5oz Simcoe (15min, 12 IBU)
0.5oz Columbus (10min, 9 IBU)
1.0oz Amarillo (0min, 1 IBU)
5.0% ABV w/75% effciency & attenuation
~30 IBU


The Pale Ale malt is what makes this beer. I'm not too knowledgeable of extract, but you'd want to use whatever extract best approximates this. I'd be worried that extra light DME isn't malty enough, even with your biscuit/crystal addition. I brewed it with 2-row and biscuit and it didn't work. (it was still good, but not a clone)

Awesome thanks, just read that thread and will dig to find an extract approximation. Also, hi from Bolingbrook!

rifraf said:

Awesome thanks, just read that thread and will dig to find an extract approximation. Also, hi from Bolingbrook!

Click to expand...

Can you post the extract recipe when you've got it? I'd love to have this brewed and "aged" and ready for the warmer months. This is probably the best goose island offering.

The recipe I came up with is:

6lbs Extra Light DME
1 lb Victory grains (steeped for flavor/color not fermentables)
0.5oz Liberty (30min, 6 IBU)
0.5oz Simcoe (15min, 12 IBU)
0.5oz Columbus (10min, 9 IBU)
1.0oz Amarillo (0min, 1 IBU)
5.0% ABV w/75% effciency & attenuation
~30 IBU

The guy at my LHBS told me to use 6lbs of Muntons Pale DME (british style pale malt which he said would give me color and biscuity flavor) instead of Extra Light + Victory. Also said to add a pound of Maltodextrin. I'm using S-33 dry yeast.

I'm using his recipe except, after reading on these forums, am only going to use 4oz of malto, and add it with the priming sugar. It's fermenting now, will update with as it progresses.

rifraf

I'm looking to move beyond a kit and do a recipe. I'd like to try this. I'm a big fan of Green Line.

So, switching to the Muntons means no steeping? I'm not familiar with Maltodextrin but I'll ask about it. Did you just use 1 pack of S-33?

colledge said:

rifraf

I'm looking to move beyond a kit and do a recipe. I'd like to try this. I'm a big fan of Green Line.

So, switching to the Muntons means no steeping? I'm not familiar with Maltodextrin but I'll ask about it. Did you just use 1 pack of S-33?

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1 pack of S-33 and the fermentation took off like a bullet. According to the LHBS guy, switching to Muntons meant no need to steep. I've never used malto yet, but seems easy enough. After reading Brewing Classic Beers it seems my gut instinct of steeping Victory grains for an APA was correct, so next time I make this I'll steep some Victory even if I keep the Muntons. The hydro sample was a little thin on body so grains should help.

Update:

Threw in .5oz Simcoe and .5oz Amarillo today for dry hopping. The beer has been fermenting for two weeks, and I'll be bottling this coming weekend after cold crashing for two days (total of three weeks in fermentation).

Took a hydro sample, which was at 1.014 as expected. Definitely a sweet, apricot smell from the yeast which is great because Green Line has that as well. The beer is fairly clear, golden colored, and tasted AWESOME. A little thin, the malto should help, but the flavor was better than I'd been hoping for. Very excited to get this into bottles.

Sounds tasty

I'm in Chicago. I usually go to Brew Camp for equipment, but this being my first move beyond a kit I'm just gonna get them to help me throw together something that closely resembles this. They don't carry these exact ingredients and hops. I asked them about malto and they said that seemed like a lot, but I don't know. I'm gonna ask more about it when i get there .

I may steep Victory with a light DME because they only have Muntons LME. In fact, I'm not seeing Muntons Pale DME anywhere, even online sources.

colledge said:

Sounds tasty

I'm in Chicago. I usually go to Brew Camp for equipment, but this being my first move beyond a kit I'm just gonna get them to help me throw together something that closely resembles this. They don't carry these exact ingredients and hops. I asked them about malto and they said that seemed like a lot, but I don't know. I'm gonna ask more about it when i get there .

I may steep Victory with a light DME because they only have Muntons LME. In fact, I'm not seeing Muntons Pale DME anywhere, even online sources.

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I must have misread/remembered, but looks like I used Muntons Light DME. 1 lb of maltodextrin definitely seems like too much the more I read, I'm going to try 4 oz and keep the rest I bought for other beers.

Try to get as close to the hops as possible, as that actually came straight from Goose Island. From what I understand, I got lucky on finding Simcoe so maybe they can recommend an alternative. Good luck with it and keep us posted on how it comes out!

I just went to brew and grow on Kedzie and they had all of rifraf's ingredients

Cracked open the first one last night...still a little green but I expected that. Flavor was great, although the apricot flavor from the yeast dominated. thin on the body but overall very tasty. Going to go get a pint of real green line tonight to compare.

A pic! 3 Weeks in bottles.

Aroma is sweet and fruity, almost like pineapples. The flavor is solid and the apricot has mellowed a lot. Still thin/light but using grains will help.

Almost too easy to drink! Will brew again with .5 lbs carapils and 1 lb Victory malt I think.

Instead of posting a new thread, I figured I'd post in here. I'm attempting to do a clone as well. I'm going to use the same hop schedule, but per what you've stated, I'm going to try using 6lbs Golden Light DME with 1lb of victory malt for steeping. I'm also going to use the American Ale II Wyeast strain as my yeast. This will be my first batch using a starter and not using strictly a kit so I'm excited and I hope it comes out close, but I'd be happy with a good pale ale.

Hey let us know how it turns out! Did batch 2 with victory and made a huge difference.

I was going to use the Munton's that you used, but since this is supposed to be an APA, I went with the Briess Golden Light.

How close did you think you got with the Victory added to your recipe?

Much closer on the malt, but I had to make some hop substitutions so the hop flavor wasn't the same, and will do slightly more viewing. Round three will hopefully combine the two. I really like this clone so far.

The only reason I used Munton is to add more of that toasty flavor. You're probably fine with Briess. I'll use that next time myself since I bought 50 lbs in bulk...

rifraf said:

Much closer on the malt, but I had to make some hop substitutions so the hop flavor wasn't the same, and will do slightly more viewing. Round three will hopefully combine the two. I really like this clone so far.

The only reason I used Munton is to add more of that toasty flavor. You're probably fine with Briess. I'll use that next time myself since I bought 50 lbs in bulk...

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Rifraf,

I am having a little trouble figuring out your final recipe, would you mind posting? Thanks

6 lbs Munton's Light DME
1 lb Victory grains (steeped for flavor/color not fermentables)

0.5oz Liberty (30min, 6 IBU)
0.5oz Simcoe (15min, 12 IBU)
0.5oz Columbus (10min, 9 IBU)
1.0oz Amarillo (0min, 1 IBU)

1 packet of S-33
4 oz maltodextrin (optional)

5.0% ABV w/75% effciency & attenuation
~30 IBU

The malto is just for more body if you think you need it. I'm not going to put it in batch 3. A note of caution, this is a very low IBU for the style, so I'd err on the side of a little extra Liberty than less. Make sure you pay attention to the AA% on the hops and adjust as this beer underbittered doesn't taste as good.

Have fun, let us know how it comes out!

I did a batch based on this thread.

I ended up using the following:

1 lb Victory grains for steeping
6 lbs. Breiss Golden Light DME

0.5oz Liberty (30min)
0.5oz Simcoe (15min)
0.5oz Columbus (10min)
1.0oz Ahtanum (0 min)-substitute

Wyeast American Ale II

I didn't find the malto necessary and will leave it out next time, but ultimately this came out fantastic and I want to do it again when it cools off. Obviously we can't clone things perfectly with this conversion method, and I don't enjoy being a perfectionist brewer, but the taste certainly satisfied much of what I like about Green Line

Awesome! Thanks for posting back. I think the malto is probably unnecessary if you user grains. I'll probably skip it next time too.

Tasted it after bottling today and I had absolutely no hop flavor... if there was any, it was overpowered by a strong alcohol taste (think vodka). Hopefully this finishes up nicely in the bottle, but I'm a little concerned.

fenix424 said:

Tasted it after bottling today and I had absolutely no hop flavor... if there was any, it was overpowered by a strong alcohol taste (think vodka). Hopefully this finishes up nicely in the bottle, but I'm a little concerned.

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Weird.. If it's fusel alcohol that will age out and is caused by fermenting too warm, how's your temp control?

rifraf said:

Weird.. If it's fusel alcohol that will age out and is caused by fermenting too warm, how's your temp control?

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Doh... that makes sense. The room I have it in normally is thermostat controlled, but with the way the weather has been fluctuating, the temp in the room has probably been going nuts. I'll check back in two weeks and see where it's at. Hopefully it'll be ok.

fenix424 said:

Doh... that makes sense. The room I have it in normally is thermostat controlled, but with the way the weather has been fluctuating, the temp in the room has probably been going nuts. I'll check back in two weeks and see where it's at. Hopefully it'll be ok.

Click to expand...

Yeah temp does funky things to beer. My first few all had fusels because I was pitching way too warm and they stayed hot during fermentation.

You'll be fine eventually, it aged out and I noticed if I let my beer sit out and breathe it would go away

I forgot to mention that, its been a few months, and I can't remember, but I dry hopped .5oz Simcoe and .5oz Amarillo, just like rifraf.

I mean, I know I did it, I just can't remember if I did both of those

So did u at Liberty or Simcone @ 30 min? Your first recipe says Simcone @ 30, but the one below says Liberty @ 30 min.

colledge said:

I did a batch based on this thread.

I ended up using the following:

1 lb Victory grains for steeping
6 lbs. Breiss Golden Light DME

0.5oz Liberty (30min)
0.5oz Simcoe (15min)
0.5oz Columbus (10min)
1.0oz Ahtanum (0 min)-substitute

Wyeast American Ale II

I didn't find the malto necessary and will leave it out next time, but ultimately this came out fantastic and I want to do it again when it cools off. Obviously we can't clone things perfectly with this conversion method, and I don't enjoy being a perfectionist brewer, but the taste certainly satisfied much of what I like about Green Line

Click to expand...

Liberty first sorry... The Green Line description online has the hops jn a different order than the official recipe they gave someone here.

Ok, thanks for the fast response.

With the recipe, Liberty first, did you find it matched the bitterness of Green Line, or was it a little less bitter? I was actually thinking of adding 1oz of Simcone leaf hops at 30 min, then liberty at 15. Do you think this would completly change the flavor of the beer?

rifraf said:

Liberty first sorry... The Green Line description online has the hops jn a different order than the official recipe they gave someone here.

Click to expand...

bsyas89 said:

Ok, thanks for the fast response.

With the recipe, Liberty first, did you find it matched the bitterness of Green Line, or was it a little less bitter? I was actually thinking of adding 1oz of Simcone leaf hops at 30 min, then liberty at 15. Do you think this would completly change the flavor of the beer?

Click to expand...

It would change the flavor a bit S Simcoe has a distinct flavor IMO but I don't think it would be bad. My last beer was not quite bitter enough for my tastes so I'm going to increase the IBUs a bit, probably by slightly increasing each hop addition equally to not throw off flavors.

Here is what I ended up going with. I brewed on Sunday, so when its done I will let you guys know how it turned out. I ended getting Simcone leaf hops because the LBS was out of pellet.

Fermentable:
Munton's Light DME - 6 lbs

Specialty Grains:
Victory Grains - 1 Lb

Hops:
Liberty (6 IBU) - Pellet - 0.5 oz (30 Min)
Simcone (12 IBU) - Leaf - 1.0 oz (15 Min)
Columbus (9 IBU) - Pellet - 0.5 oz (5 Min)
Amarillo (1 IBU) - Pellet - 1.0 oz (Flameout)

Yeast:
California White Labs Yeast WLP001

Spices/Other:
Irish Moss - 1 tsp. (15 Min)

I will be tranferring to secondary on Saturday and then kegging after that.

Here's how mu brew turned out.



Gotten a lot of compliments on it, but someone compared it more to Zombie Dust than Green Line... Honestly, it just tastes good and will definitely make it again!

fenix424 said:

Here's how mu brew turned out.

http://imgur.com/SM4g0

Gotten a lot of compliments on it, but someone compared it more to Zombie Dust than Green Line... Honestly, it just tastes good and will definitely make it again!

Click to expand...

Nice! Looks nice and clear. Thanks for the update, and Zombie Dust is high praise so awesome. Do you think the flavor difference is the Wyeast? I've never used that strain.

I'm excited to open one on Friday from my latest batch. This time I tried using the the most pale DME available.

I just brewed this yesterday couldn't find Amarillo so i used Ahtanum instead. I have a questions regarding dry hopping. is it neccessary? I have .50z of simecoe left jsut wondering if should but more Ahtanum to dry hop

Shouldn't be a big deal to use the Simcoe. That's what I did, turned out fine.

Cool I'll let you guys know how it comes out

rifraf said:

Nice! Looks nice and clear. Thanks for the update, and Zombie Dust is high praise so awesome. Do you think the flavor difference is the Wyeast? I've never used that strain.

Click to expand...

This was my first time using that yeast so I don't know what kind of a difference it made. I agree though, it needs more hop character. Mine has a nice fruity flavor, but could use some more bitterness. I put it into iBrewmaster and it came out with 29IBUs which is close to the range for an APA, but I didn't do a 5 gal boil so I'm sure hop utilization is lower. I just bought a bigger kettle, so I think I'll be able to do a 4.5 gal boil this next time, and I'm going to add .25 oz of hops to each step minus the Amarillo . I didn't dry hop either, but could I just leave the Amarillo in the fermenter after using them at flameout to get a little more aroma or should I dry hop with something to get a little more aroma?

I should have asked this before I did this too, but you did a 60 min boil with the first hop addition at 30 minutes, right?

I'm still new to all this so let me know if my logic is remotely correct.