Dual 2000W 120V Recirculating eBIAB Build

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tyfernandez said:
Russki,

I was considering making a similar whirlpool arm. Did your pump have enough power to create a good whirlpool and trub cone at the bottom of the kettle? I use an immersion cooler so hopping it has enough strength to cut down on my cooling time.
Click to expand...

It did create a nice whirlpool, but alas, no trub cone, probably from the elements being in the way. This would definitely speed up cooling with an IC.

Interestingly, I had a lot less trub in my fermentor from this batch than usual - no more than an inch at the bottom of the bucket, and most of it yeast. I bag my hops, and I did not squeeze the grain bag (I used to with my old system), so I attribute this lack of trub to clearer wort going into the kettle.

BeardedIdiot said:
Awesome setup. Makes me want to reconsider converting the 3 kegs I have into BK/MLT/HLT and just copy your build! How much do you think you have into the build so far?
Click to expand...

Thanks! I believe I'm somewhere around $800 or so, not including tools; I'm going to post a parts list for my build so you can see what's involved.
 
Ok, so here's the parts list for my build for anyone wanting to duplicate this system. Quantities noted where applicable.

Amazon.com

62 qt Bayou Classic SS Kettle with basket (actually bought used, but Amazon has the best deal on them)
US Wire 65050 12/3 50-Foot SJTW Orange Heavy Duty Extension Cord
AC Infinity LS9225A-X Standard Cooling Fan

eBrewSupply.com

220v 40a, 110v Coil, Contactor qty:2
40a Solid State Relay SSR qty:2
2-Way, 1 NO Contact, Switch
Mushroom Button, NO Contact
Flashing Buzzer
Add on NO Contact

BargainFittings.com

NEW - KEG Weldless Bulkhead Kit
- Inside the vessel fitting STREET 90 - 1/2" NPT
- Valve 2 - piece SS ball valve
- Hose Barb (valve outlet) <NONE>
1/2" SS Camlock F style fitting Quick Disconnect qty: 3
1/2" SS Camlock D style fitting Quick Disconnect qty: 1
1/2" SS Camlock B Style Quick Disconnect qty: 4
1/2" SS Camlock A Style Quick Disconnect qty: 2
1/2" NPT SS 2 piece ball valve qty: 1
1" Stainless Locknut and o-ring kit qty: 2
Weldless thermometer sight gauge kit
- Vessel: Keg or kettle
Silicone Tubing 1/2" ID x 3/4" OD qty: 12 ft
1/2" SS Camlock Dust Cap Style Quick Disconnect qty: 1

BrewHardware.com

Mash recirculation tube w/camlock
Sight glass calibration decals

eBay.com

2 x Panel Mount Fuse Holder For M205 5x20mm Fuses
10PCS Metal Film Resistor 1 Watt 1W 1K ohm
10 Pcs 5x20mm Quick Fast Blow Type 1A 1 AMP 110-240V Glass Tube Fuses
Aluminum Large Rectangle Heatsink

Auberins.com

1/16 DIN PID Temperature Controller (SSR control output)
Item #: SYL-2352

Illuminated Maintained Pushbutton Switch, 2 NO, 22mm. 120/240V qty: 2
Item #: SW1 LED Color Option - Green

Illuminated Maintained Pushbutton Switch, 2 NO, 22mm. 120/240V qty: 2
Item #: SW1 LED Color Option - Blue

Liquid tight RTD sensor, 4 in, 1/2 NPT Thread
Item #: PT100-L100NPT Cable Option - Deluxe Cable

Box for 1/16 DIN controller
Item #: Pbox16

McMaster.com

Multipurpose Silicone Adhesive/Sealant 2.8 oz Tube, Translucent
18-8 Stainless Steel Wide-Rim Shim .075" Thick, 1-1/2" ID, 2-1/4" OD qty: 2

BostonHeatingSupply.com

Rheem SP10868GL 120V 2000W Stainless Steel Element qty: 2

GreatBreweh.com

Brewery Pump

DudaDiesel.com

B3-12A 20 Plate Beer Wort Garden Hose Chiller

Menards

4" x 2" Handy Box Extension qty: 3
4" x 2" Handy Box Cover, Blank qty: 4
3/8" Romex Connectorm 10 pcs
1" Romex Connector
Plug Straight Blade 20A, 125V qty: 4
20A Commercial Grade Outlet
Terminal Block, 6 Pole
1/2" copper tubing
90 degree 1/2" copper elbows qty: 4
Plumbers Silicone Tape
5/8" x 25' Medium Duty Garden Hose

Harbor Freight

520 Piece Terminal Set
127 Piece Heat Shrink Tubing Set
100 Piece Zip Ties
 
theknub said:
id be interested in hearing how that pump works.
Click to expand...

Well... there's the pump inlet that connects to a ball valve on the kettle, then there's a magnetically driven impeller that pushes fluid through the outlet with another ball valve... :D Oh, wait, did you mean how it performed? If that's the case, I am very happy with the GreatBrewEh.com pump - it's tiny, practically silent and pushes wort through very well, even when pumping through the plate chiller and a whirlpool arm. When mashing, I have to throttle it down with the outlet ball valve about half closed, otherwise it empties the space under the basket.

Mine was the new model with SS NPT connectors - so no threading problems like their earlier BSP pumps.
 
russki said:
Well... there's the pump inlet that connects to a ball valve on the kettle, then there's a magnetically driven impeller that pushes fluid through the outlet with another ball valve... :D Oh, wait, did you mean how it performed? If that's the case, I am very happy with the GreatBrewEh.com pump - it's tiny, practically silent and pushes wort through very well, even when pumping through the plate chiller and a whirlpool arm. When mashing, I have to throttle it down with the outlet ball valve about half closed, otherwise it empties the space under the basket.

Mine was the new model with SS NPT connectors - so no threading problems like their earlier BSP pumps.
Click to expand...

:)... ass. that's my kind of response

i have a SS chugger i use but adding this i could recirculate water in my herms/hlt. only real reason i need for two pumps.
 
So, speaking of the pump... mine abruptly died in the middle of brewing today... Luckily I have already started to recirculate boiling wort through my plate chiller, so it was sanitized, and I was able to gravity feed into the fermenter.

Checked the power supply, it had 12v, so it's gotta be the pump itself. Took it apart, no jams... The motor just won't start. Guess we'll see how good GreatBrewEh warranty service is...
 
So, I retested the pump today, and it's working... Makes me think that somehow I tripped thermal protection... But how? The pump is rated to 230F.
 
Not sure about the thermal protection, but I know I've had my pump (not from greatbreweh, but the probably the same manufacturer) "die" on me once or twice when i was testing my system. I walked away from it and I think it lost siphon and ran dry for a short while, causing it to turn off. Is it possible something like that happened? Mine worked just fine once I turned if off then on making sure to restart the siphon.
 
tyfernandez said:
Not sure about the thermal protection, but I know I've had my pump (not from greatbreweh, but the probably the same manufacturer) "die" on me once or twice when i was testing my system. I walked away from it and I think it lost siphon and ran dry for a short while, causing it to turn off. Is it possible something like that happened? Mine worked just fine once I turned if off then on making sure to restart the siphon.
Click to expand...
It definitely did not behave like that - it would not turn back on until several hours later. GreatBrewEh responded saying they have seen this happen with pumps attached directly to the kettle. I wonder if there's some cavitation created by vigorously boiling wort entering the pump? I'm going to run some tests with water to see if I can replicate this issue.
 
Hmm. Strange. Let us know your results. When mine powered off, I was able to power it back on within a few minutes. I was just using cold water at the time, as I was just checking my system for leaks. If I remember right I just let a decent amount of water drain out through the pump to help it regain it'sprime, then when I hit the switch it came on like nothing every happened.

I do recall reading several threads about pump's losing their prime when used while boiling though. Although they're usually Chugger or March pumps mounted away from the kettle.

Good Luck!
 
I like your build, good job. I will be making a similar setup using the 44qt pot some day.

About the pump issue: When pumping liquid at or near boiling, the little underpressure at pump input will cause the liquid to boil instantly creating a lot of steam. This will cause the pump to loose its load and increase speed. Some magnetically coupled pumps will simply decouple its magnet drive at a certain RPM. And it has to stop completely to regain coupling.

Some DC motor pump have a built in motor controller to drive the brushless DC motor. The control circuit is sensing the RPM of the motor an should the pump be run dry it will sense a to high RPM and shut down.

This might be the reason for the pump issues you have.
 
That makes sense... I think I'm going to try restricting the output by closing the valve after the pump half-way and see if the pump turns off when pumping boiling water.
 
So I ran a test last night. Boiled 6 gallons of water, set up my plate chiller and whirlpool arm, and tried to recirculate boiling water. When the pump output was wide open, I could hear the pump making "gurgling" noises - as soon as I restricted the output to 50%, the noise went back to normal. Recirculated boiling water for 15 minutes with no issues this way.

I'm hoping that this is all there's to it.
 
russki said:
So I ran a test last night. Boiled 6 gallons of water, set up my plate chiller and whirlpool arm, and tried to recirculate boiling water. When the pump output was wide open, I could hear the pump making "gurgling" noises - as soon as I restricted the output to 50%, the noise went back to normal. Recirculated boiling water for 15 minutes with no issues this way.

I'm hoping that this is all there's to it.
Click to expand...

Russki,

Thanks for the update. I hope the "fix" is that simple.

Sam
 
Just looked at the that bostonplumbing supply site for those stainless LWD elements. Its $28 for shipping alone... thats crazy.
 
And they rust like crazy. They and the company claim they aren't meant for use in brewing applications and there fore won't address rust. Disappointing to say the least. Solved with food grade silicone around nut though.
 
If you don't mind me asking, what is the total cost of this so far, not including the kettle, pump and plate chiller?

Awesome build. Has me thinking about going electric.

Both elements can run on 120v at the same time and no circuits have tripped? About how long does it take to get to mash temp and to a boil?
 
MDRex said:
If you don't mind me asking, what is the total cost of this so far, not including the kettle, pump and plate chiller?

Awesome build. Has me thinking about going electric.

Both elements can run on 120v at the same time and no circuits have tripped? About how long does it take to get to mash temp and to a boil?
Click to expand...

The total excluding the kettle, pump, and chiller was about $600-650. This system runs off 2 separate 120v 20A GFCI circuits; no issues with tripping the breakers.

I usually start with 8-8.5 gallons of room temp water, and it takes about 30 min or so to get it to mash temps, and another 20 or so to get to boil after the mash. I've never really timed it, because I do other stuff while waiting, but it's pretty quick.
 
Russki,

I was getting ready to add a sight glass to my rig, but can't decide if the eye bolt that holds the top of it will get in the way of the basket. It looks as if you were able to get the basket in past the bolt on some of your pictures. Does it get in the way at all? There really doesn't seem to be too much wiggle room on my 44qt pot. Wondering if it's different with your larger pot.
 
tyfernandez said:
Russki,

I was getting ready to add a sight glass to my rig, but can't decide if the eye bolt that holds the top of it will get in the way of the basket. It looks as if you were able to get the basket in past the bolt on some of your pictures. Does it get in the way at all? There really doesn't seem to be too much wiggle room on my 44qt pot. Wondering if it's different with your larger pot.
Click to expand...

There's definitely wiggle room on the 62 qt pot - I have no issues with the basket catching on the bolt. If you are concerned that there's not as much room on the 44qt one, you can always solder the nut onto the outside of the kettle.
 
This thread is exactly what I needed to convince myself I am going electric. I wanted a solution that was compact, could be used in a kitchen, and run off the current circuitry in my house (i.e. 120v/20A circuits). Russki, your build is darn near exactly what I think I'm going to put together, with the exception of using a converted sanke keg and maybe a little bigger project box :). I've just started doing my serious reading about how to put one of these builds together, and I have to say I'm amazed at the generosity of P-J in all the time he's put in drawing up schematics for everyone. Really incredible stuff.

Anyway, after wiring my basement this winter I am confident enough to tackle this project. Despite never really reading wiring schematics before, P-J's drawings are very easy to follow.

Russki, very simple question for you. I see you used a 6 pole terminal block. I assume you ran the hot, neutral and ground through it? Obviously it's working for you, but with all the extra wiring since this is a dual circuit build, I'm thinking I might be more comfortable using separate blocks with jumpers just to make sure my wiring is clean. The 120V Plug #1 in particular jumps off several times after coming into the box.

Really looking forward to starting this project. It maybe a little while, but it's fun to think about already!
 
HopRodGR said:
Russki, very simple question for you. I see you used a 6 pole terminal block. I assume you ran the hot, neutral and ground through it? Obviously it's working for you, but with all the extra wiring since this is a dual circuit build, I'm thinking I might be more comfortable using separate blocks with jumpers just to make sure my wiring is clean. The 120V Plug #1 in particular jumps off several times after coming into the box.
Click to expand...
I ran hot and neutral through it for both lines. All ground leads are attached to one of the bolts I used to mount the terminal block. With a larger enclosure, you could certainly use separate blocks. This was a very tight squeeze into the small Auber box.

I love this little rig; brewed a 10 gallon batch yesterday - it was easily boiling 13 gallons of wort at 75%.

Good luck with your build!
 
russki said:
I ran hot and neutral through it for both lines. All ground leads are attached to one of the bolts I used to mount the terminal block. With a larger enclosure, you could certainly use separate blocks. This was a very tight squeeze into the small Auber box.

I love this little rig; brewed a 10 gallon batch yesterday - it was easily boiling 13 gallons of wort at 75%.

Good luck with your build!
Click to expand...

Since you used a standard two plug receptacle for plugging the elements into, I assume you broke the hot bridge, then ran two hot wires in (one from each contactor), two neutrals (again, one from each contactor) and only one ground. Would that be correct?
 
russki said:
Ok, so here's the parts list for my build for anyone wanting to duplicate this system. Quantities noted where applicable.

Amazon.com

62 qt Bayou Classic SS Kettle with basket (actually bought used, but Amazon has the best deal on them)
US Wire 65050 12/3 50-Foot SJTW Orange Heavy Duty Extension Cord
AC Infinity LS9225A-X Standard Cooling Fan

eBrewSupply.com

220v 40a, 110v Coil, Contactor qty:2
40a Solid State Relay SSR qty:2
2-Way, 1 NO Contact, Switch
Mushroom Button, NO Contact
Flashing Buzzer
Add on NO Contact

BargainFittings.com

NEW - KEG Weldless Bulkhead Kit
- Inside the vessel fitting STREET 90 - 1/2" NPT
- Valve 2 - piece SS ball valve
- Hose Barb (valve outlet) <NONE>
1/2" SS Camlock F style fitting Quick Disconnect qty: 3
1/2" SS Camlock D style fitting Quick Disconnect qty: 1
1/2" SS Camlock B Style Quick Disconnect qty: 4
1/2" SS Camlock A Style Quick Disconnect qty: 2
1/2" NPT SS 2 piece ball valve qty: 1
1" Stainless Locknut and o-ring kit qty: 2
Weldless thermometer sight gauge kit
- Vessel: Keg or kettle
Silicone Tubing 1/2" ID x 3/4" OD qty: 12 ft
1/2" SS Camlock Dust Cap Style Quick Disconnect qty: 1

BrewHardware.com

Mash recirculation tube w/camlock
Sight glass calibration decals

eBay.com

2 x Panel Mount Fuse Holder For M205 5x20mm Fuses
10PCS Metal Film Resistor 1 Watt 1W 1K ohm
10 Pcs 5x20mm Quick Fast Blow Type 1A 1 AMP 110-240V Glass Tube Fuses
Aluminum Large Rectangle Heatsink

Auberins.com

1/16 DIN PID Temperature Controller (SSR control output)
Item #: SYL-2352

Illuminated Maintained Pushbutton Switch, 2 NO, 22mm. 120/240V qty: 2
Item #: SW1 LED Color Option - Green

Illuminated Maintained Pushbutton Switch, 2 NO, 22mm. 120/240V qty: 2
Item #: SW1 LED Color Option - Blue

Liquid tight RTD sensor, 4 in, 1/2 NPT Thread
Item #: PT100-L100NPT Cable Option - Deluxe Cable

Box for 1/16 DIN controller
Item #: Pbox16

McMaster.com

Multipurpose Silicone Adhesive/Sealant 2.8 oz Tube, Translucent
18-8 Stainless Steel Wide-Rim Shim .075" Thick, 1-1/2" ID, 2-1/4" OD qty: 2

BostonHeatingSupply.com

Rheem SP10868GL 120V 2000W Stainless Steel Element qty: 2

GreatBreweh.com

Brewery Pump

DudaDiesel.com

B3-12A 20 Plate Beer Wort Garden Hose Chiller

Menards

4" x 2" Handy Box Extension qty: 3
4" x 2" Handy Box Cover, Blank qty: 4
3/8" Romex Connectorm 10 pcs
1" Romex Connector
Plug Straight Blade 20A, 125V qty: 4
20A Commercial Grade Outlet
Terminal Block, 6 Pole
1/2" copper tubing
90 degree 1/2" copper elbows qty: 4
Plumbers Silicone Tape
5/8" x 25' Medium Duty Garden Hose

Harbor Freight

520 Piece Terminal Set
127 Piece Heat Shrink Tubing Set
100 Piece Zip Ties
Click to expand...

Wow. this is great! thanks!
 
HopRodGR said:
Since you used a standard two plug receptacle for plugging the elements into, I assume you broke the hot bridge, then ran two hot wires in (one from each contactor), two neutrals (again, one from each contactor) and only one ground. Would that be correct?
Click to expand...
I broke both hot and neutral jumpers off to have two completely separate circuits. The ground wire is common.
 
I recently decided that I am going to upgrade to electric and want to use the same wiring diagram you used. The one thing I am unsure about is the guage of wire that is needed. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 
JEnglish said:
I recently decided that I am going to upgrade to electric and want to use the same wiring diagram you used. The one thing I am unsure about is the guage of wire that is needed. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Click to expand...

For the element circuits you need 12 gauge wire; for the rest, you can use thinner wire (I used 18 gauge), since there's really not much amperage there.
 
Would it matter if I used the same guage throughout the whole thing? or do I need to use the two different sizes?
 
JEnglish said:
Would it matter if I used the same guage throughout the whole thing? or do I need to use the two different sizes?
Click to expand...
You could use 12 gauge throughout the controller, it's just more difficult to work with, and you may have trouble finding 12-gauge terminals that fit the small contacts of the PID controller and the push buttons. And you would definitely need a larger enclosure - there's no way you can fit all that thick wire in the Auber box.
 
I've been following this thread, and plan on using the design as it's the best I've found so far (for what I plan on doing).

1. Can't find anything on the "add on NO" contact as far as where it's used in the system.
2. Do you have a master on/off switch or does it just turn on when plugged in?
2a. If not, why?

Great job btw.
 
chrish15 said:
I've been following this thread, and plan on using the design as it's the best I've found so far (for what I plan on doing).

1. Can't find anything on the "add on NO" contact as far as where it's used in the system.
2. Do you have a master on/off switch or does it just turn on when plugged in?
2a. If not, why?

Great job btw.
Click to expand...

He is using this E-Stop switch Mushroom Button, N/O Contact.

The circuit requires a 2nd N/O contact to function with the two 120V power inputs. The 2nd N/O contact is this one: Add on N/O Contact

No master switch as each device is independently controlled. Also, if used, a larger project box would probably be needed.

I hope this helps.

P-J
 
Do you have a wiring diagram instructions? Is this 2 120 v elements ran by rhis controller?
 
owentp said:
Do you have a wiring diagram instructions? Is this 2 120 v elements ran by rhis controller?
Click to expand...

The diagram is in the first post of the thread - there are no instructions, you just have to follow the diagram, it's pretty self-explanatory. This controller runs two 120v elements using two 20A 120v circuits.
 
I've been following this thread since the beginning and have been piecing it together as I could afford parts. Unfortunately, at this time I need money more than a new brewing system. So if your wanting to build this system for yourself, I have half the parts ready to sell here https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f16/half-biab-system-438170/#post5598718 Sorry to hijack the thread. Thanks to the OP for great system. I hope to build it for myself someday. Cheers!
 
hawgwild81 said:
I've been following this thread since the beginning and have been piecing it together as I could afford parts. Unfortunately, at this time I need money more than a new brewing system. So if your wanting to build this system for yourself, I have half the parts ready to sell. Sorry to hijack the thread. Thanks to the OP for great system. I hope to build it for myself someday. Cheers!
Click to expand...

So sorry. (political, economic statement - sorry) I understand and share your opinions. I really hope things get better for you.

P-J

Edit: This tares up my heart. I'm 73... What has been happening lately with everything in our country just tares and tears me up.
 
Would this same setup work if I were to use a single GFCI outlet on the box(Can you even break the jumpers on a GFCI outlet?) and just plugged into two standard 20A outlets on separate circuits?
 
moclamd said:
Would this same setup work if I were to use a single GFCI outlet on the box(Can you even break the jumpers on a GFCI outlet?) and just plugged into two standard 20A outlets on separate circuits?
Click to expand...
You cannot do this with a single GFCI outlet. If you want to use non-GFCI outlets, you may want to use in-line GFCI cords, for example these Tasco 20 amp ones.
 

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