Merits of "cask" ales?

This month's BYO magazine has a big article on "Homebrewing cask ales - serve homebrew as real ale"

Can someone explain to me the advantage of this.

Why can't you just force carbonate as usual in a regular corny but with a lot less CO2 and then serve it by gravity with a minimum additional CO2, as needed.
CO2 is CO2, whether it comes from your CO2 cylinder or from a secondary fermentation.

"Cask" dispensing also has major disadvantages:
1. $200 just for the special keg, sorry, cask.
2. Need to wait 3 weeks before secondary fermentation is complete.
3. Need to drink your 5 gal in 2 days, at most.
4. Seems a PITA to get right. Do you want to waste 5 gal of good beer trying to get the procedure correct?

Not trying to be a jerk, surely there must be something to it I don't get.
Cheers!

Typically significantly lower carbonation,pushed through a special faucet to give it head, knocking even more carbonation, while letting the cask breath in ambient air to give it a one off flavor due to natural yeast flying around.

I don't get it either, but that's what I've heard.

Thanks for the reply phoenix,
but we can do all of that with our regular corny's and CO2 cylinders, can't we?

Hi

In some cases they brew it in casks that have stayed continously in production for over 150 years. The accumulated biosphere in the cask is part of what gives the beer it's unique flavor. .... and yes the result is *very* good.

Bob

Octavius said:

Thanks for the reply phoenix,
but we can do all of that with our regular corny's and CO2 cylinders, can't we?

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No, while you supply co2 you are in a closed pressure situation. While the cask ale is being distributed it is pulling in outside atmosphere.

Bob,
That's where I've gone wrong!!
After every brew I clean with PBW and sanitize with Star San. Drat!
Seriously, I didn't know that. I also read somewhere of a pub in England that has been serving soup (or was it a stew) from the same cast iron cauldron for centuries without cleaning.
Phoenix,
Well, what I meant was that you could open up the keg anytime you feel like it, let in some mouldy air, close it up and apply a bit more CO2.
Cheers!

Just curious about cask ales. Want to see where this goes.

I am not a chemist, or even an account
Accomplished home fewer, but I did spend a nice chunk of time in Wales......

Real ale tastes soooo delish!

Smooth, slightly warmer, fantastic.
Perhaps it is an acquire taste but I just love it.
Before investing big into equipment, perhaps see if any place near you has it available. Search, I recall a site that mapped out all the bars that served it...

H-Balm,
Yes, but I'm thinking that you can achieve the same without going the "cask" route:
1. Lower your carbonation
2. Serve at higher temp - (50 - 55F)
3. Use a British recipe - ie lower alcohol and with some cane sugar in the mix
4. Use gravity to create a bit of a head
5. Possibly invest in an attachment on the outfeed to strip out more CO2 and also provide aeration.

Next time I'm at Home Depot, I'll check out the plumbing dept for an aerator attachment - isn't most water aerated here in the US to save water?

Cheers!

Octavius said:

H-Balm,
Yes, but I'm thinking that you can achieve the same without going the "cask" route:
1. Lower your carbonation
2. Serve at higher temp - (50 - 55F)
3. Use a British recipe - ie lower alcohol and with some cane sugar in the mix
4. Use gravity to create a bit of a head
5. Possibly invest in an attachment on the outfeed to strip out more CO2 and also provide aeration.

Next time I'm at Home Depot, I'll check out the plumbing dept for an aerator attachment - isn't most water aerated here in the US to save water?

Cheers!

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would like to see how you can get #5 to work,that would be cool to pull an ale with those type results

carlisle_bob said:

and yes the result is *very* good.

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fresh cask ale can be excellent! but living many years in britain i sampled far too many old nasty ales from pubs that don't sell enough to change the barrel regularly and are too stupid or cheap to chuck the ruined ale out, and man it can be so foul. stinky, mildewy, rank. insipid if you're lucky. for all the great things CAMRA does in reviving and supporting these traditional ales, they shoot themselves in the foot by not allowing CO2 rebreathers in casks, where appropriate (ie low turnover). imo! rant

BigBopper,
I don't know, maybe something along this line:

that has the aerator/water saver filter. Only about $7 - prolly different hose size - will have to see.
DinnerStick,
Yes, "casks" need constant and expert attention. Why bother if you can get the same results with corny and CO2.
Cheers!

Octavius said:

Yes, "casks" need constant and expert attention. Why bother if you can get the same results with corny and CO2.
Cheers!

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because you can't.

Come on now motobrewer.
Do we know this for certain?
A slight change in procedure and recipe, some inexpensive equipment.
Cheers!

Octavius said:

Come on now motobrewer.
Do we know this for certain?
A slight change in procedure and recipe, some inexpensive equipment.
Cheers!

Click to expand...

I don't know how many times I can tell you adding co2 makes it not a cask. When the beer is withdrawn from the cask, it pulls in outside air.

I read somewhere that u can use a corny as cask u put the keg on its side and don't use co2. I think the guy was using a "in" post attachment with a valve on it to regulate the air going into the "cask" and then serving the beer with gravity. I also read that cask article in byo and have been thinking about the process a lot too. Chopps

OK, let's ask Dinnerstick a question:
"In a good pub, when they have just changed the barrel, was the beer still delicious?"
I suspect the answer is "Yes!"
Therefore, you don't need no stinking air in the barrel.
Sure, when the barrel is near the end, the beer has a very, very slight sour taste which adds to the character. But this is not necessary for an excellent beer.
Cheers!
PS Thanks for the input JoeyChopps

Octavius said:

Come on now motobrewer.
Do we know this for certain?
A slight change in procedure and recipe, some inexpensive equipment.
Cheers!

Click to expand...

yes, i know that for certain. you can use a corny, but you can't use co2.

you are confused as to what cask beer is all about.

octavius, i would say definitely. for me the fresher the better. you know if you see them do it that they have just changed the cask, but other than that you don't know exactly how long the cask has been going for when ordering a pint (obviously). it would be a great experiment if you could try the same cask ale 0,2,4,6 etc days after tapping and venting, but all at side by side at the same moment. that would clear up a lot of the confusion. you hear a lot of people say the cellar air and slight oxidation adds character, and i'm not saying they are wrong, it's just hard to separate fact from old guy myth, and to separate my personal taste preferences from anyone else's. but if i go into a pub and all the locals are all drinking one ale, then i'm going for that one as it's gonna be more freshly tapped. and maybe they even clean the lines every now and then. joey chopps, i think there was a basic brewing episode where they talk you through that corny strategy and even re-breathing through the out post?

I'm not sure where I read but I'm pretty sure they were talking about breathing the keg from the out port with abient air

You could certainly serve cask ale in a keg, but to do so you'd need to allow air into the keg and serve using gravity or a hand pump. The main point being not using CO2 under pressure.

I've had cask ale once many years back at a brewery in Ann Arbor. I can't recall what it tasted like. I suspect it wasn't much different than the regular version of that beer. They drew it with an engine at cellar temps.

From what I understand, most Cask Ale is served in a matter of a few days, in order to avoid spoilage (yet while still achieving a level of oxidation.)

I've seen thread where people have used an RV hand pump and plumbed it into the keg. You can even add a "sparkler" to create more foam like they sometimes do in Cask Ale setups.

Octavius said:

OK, let's ask Dinnerstick a question:
"In a good pub, when they have just changed the barrel, was the beer still delicious?"
I suspect the answer is "Yes!"
Therefore, you don't need no stinking air in the barrel.
Sure, when the barrel is near the end, the beer has a very, very slight sour taste which adds to the character. But this is not necessary for an excellent beer.
Cheers!
PS Thanks for the input JoeyChopps

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It is not necessarily sour. While local microbes can change the flavor of the beer, sour is probably not an expected outcome. Also you can attache a sterile filter to the inlet and the changes in flavor are only occurring due to the inclusion of oxygen.

I have made/served "cask ale" from a corny. Just switch around the in and the out and leave the poppet out of the new out. Air is draw in through the diptube. Did it for a part and left it out over night for the next few days. I would have to so that the beer definitely changed and was the best (IMO) on day 2.

And why all the arguing? If you like it, do it. Otherwise don't. Who cares?

Let your ale ferment out completely and settle.

Add enough brewing sugar to raise the finished product .002 - .004 gravity points (depending on how carbonated you want your ale to be. Add isinglass finings at this point and seal your keg.

Allow the carbonation to build up for a couple of days and then let out the pressure.

Either gravity pour or pump into your glasses. Reseal when you're done for the day and open it for the next tastimg. It will change over a period of a few days and depending on a lot of things different changes, some good and some not so good, will take place.

It's not going to last very long because of the air being drawn into the keg so unless you're having a group tasting only do small batches that will last no moore than a week maximum.

OMO

bosco

Hi

Cask ale covers a *lot* of ground. It can describe an ale fermented in a cask and after a while (weeks / months / years) bottled. It also can describe one fermented in a cask and then transferred to another cask for serving (normally pretty fast). I've never heard it applied to a pressure process ahead of the cask.

Bob

I love cask ales and jumped at the chance to have my own pin cask a little over a year ago. Nothing tastes better than an extremely fresh IPA or Brown ale out of the cask.

It tastes extremely different from beer that is served out of my kegerator. I usually brew a 10 gallon batch, 5 of which goes into the pin and the other 5 into the kegerator so everyone I have over for the party can taste the differences.

Its really not a PITA at all, its just like filling a corney keg you just hammer the spile in and let it sit like bottles. Its like if bottling and kegging had a baby, it would be prepping a cask.

If you are worried about not being able to drink it in a night, you are extremely wrong. My pin cask goes so quick during some parties that people ask if next time I could have a firkin. All most everyone will walk right by the kegerator to get to the cask.

chromados

Cask or Real ale is made by either casking the beer (putting in a keg) just before it has reached it estimated final gravity or adding additional fermentables to it once it has fermented out. Finings are commonly added at the brewery.

It is usually served once the small amount of carbonation has completed and is "fresh".

Either it is poured out by gravity or pumped out with a beer engine. The brewery bung is removed to allow the beer to flow out freely and is usually replaced with another at night.

There is very little carbonation and most beer machines have a sparkler attached to the end of the spout to spray the beer out and this produces more of a head to the pour.

The only time Real or Cask ales are under pressure is during the time they're forming the small volume of carbonation they are noted for and while in transit from brewery to pub. The pub owner ususally puts in a bung or plug when the place is closed.

I had it once many tears ago and was intrigued by the whole thing so the landlord showed me the whole process, at least on his end of the line.

I tried to replicate the whole thing in the 80's and after an almost decent experience decided it was not for me. At the time I had a walk in refrigerator and tried a lot of dumb things..LOL

bosco











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chromados said:

I love cask ales and jumped at the chance to have my own pin cask a little over a year ago. Nothing tastes better than an extremely fresh IPA or Brown ale out of the cask.

It tastes extremely different from beer that is served out of my kegerator. I usually brew a 10 gallon batch, 5 of which goes into the pin and the other 5 into the kegerator so everyone I have over for the party can taste the differences.

Its really not a PITA at all, its just like filling a corney keg you just hammer the spile in and let it sit like bottles. Its like if bottling and kegging had a baby, it would be prepping a cask.

If you are worried about not being able to drink it in a night, you are extremely wrong. My pin cask goes so quick during some parties that people ask if next time I could have a firkin. All most everyone will walk right by the kegerator to get to the cask.

chromados

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Glad to see you are enjoying your own cask brews.. For me 5 gallons would last 3-4 weeks and would only be good for drowning slugs by then>>LOL

bosco