does this recipe sound ok?

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9am53

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I have now made a couple kit beers, and I am about to make another, and want it to taste good. My last ones have had that cidery taste from the pound of dextrose I have been using, and I don't like it. I went on beer calculus and plugged in some stuff and just want to run it by you to see if I am on the right track.

1 can of coopers dark ale
3 pounds of amber LME from homebrewgearcanada
1 pound of maltodextrin
crystal 60L (can't remember the amount)
S-04 yeast.

one quarterpound of the crystal yields an OG of 1050, should I remove the maltodextrin and go straight malt, no sugar?

Beercalculus says my FG should be 1015, this seems really high, would it not attenuate down lower?

thanks.
 
9am53 said:
I have now made a couple kit beers, and I am about to make another, and want it to taste good. My last ones have had that cidery taste from the pound of dextrose I have been using, and I don't like it. I went on beer calculus and plugged in some stuff and just want to run it by you to see if I am on the right track.

1 can of coopers dark ale
3 pounds of amber LME from homebrewgearcanada
1 pound of maltodextrin
crystal 60L (can't remember the amount)
S-04 yeast.

one quarterpound of the crystal yields an OG of 1050, should I remove the maltodextrin and go straight malt, no sugar?

Beercalculus says my FG should be 1015, this seems really high, would it not attenuate down lower?

thanks.
Click to expand...

I'd lose the maltodextrine! It's a "thickener". My son used it in his rootbeer. I'm not sure what he did, but he must have used more than the 2 tablespoons- he made root beer Jello!

MD isn't a fermentable sugar. It's to provide body and mouthfeel, and makes the beer have more body. It will do no good in your beer!
 
oh geez, I got it at the LHBS thinking I could replace my dextrose with it. OK, so if I leave it out does everything else look good?
 
no hops, I assumed that the coopers kit would have enough in it. I added hops to another kit beer and it was hops overkill, so I am not planning on adding any.
 
Your cidery flavor is more than likely not caused from using dextrose but from your method. If you would like to omit the sugar and use all malt it may help but only because it masks off flavors better then sugar.

Personally I would stick with something simple like using the Dark Ale kit with some lme and dextrose until you find what's causing the cidery taste. I would start by looking at your water and fermentation temps.
 
One pound of dextrose isn't a lot,especially in a 6G cooper's batch. My 1st used the OS lager with 1kg (2.2lbs) of their brewing sugar (80%dextrose,20%maltodextrin). It eventually came out fine,despite my noobness.
That flavor is usually due to high pitch temps,& high ferment temps. I've since started making different styles with Cooper's cans. I change up what kind of DME I use,usually 3lbs. Then add 2 oz of different hops in 3 additions. Comes out fine bulk primed & bottle aged for the right time.
If I use DME,I don't add dextrose,& still wind up between 4.8%-5.3%+. The dark ale I'm just about done with now will be secondaried with 4oz of bourbon soaked oak chips. & the 1st FG test is already over 5.7%.
 
9am53 said:
oh geez, I got it at the LHBS thinking I could replace my dextrose with it. OK, so if I leave it out does everything else look good?
Click to expand...

Yes, but I don't now how much bittering the Cooper's LME has. Leave out the MD (as it's NOT a replacement for sugar!) and use the extract you have. It should turn out fine!

Make sure you keep it under 68 degrees- S04 is a great yeast, but above 70 it gets very fruity.
 
The dark ale can is part of the Original Series,meaning it only has a rather neutral bittering addition with Pride of Ringwood hops. And not a lot at that,since some say it has a creamy quality. I changed mine up so it could withstand the 4oz of French oak chips soaked with 5 jiggers of 8 year old bourbon the last couple of weeks that'll be added in secondary.
I brewed it with the provided ale yeast in a small starter,3lbs of Munton's plain amber DME,& 1oz each of Kent Golding & Haulertau hops in 3 additions. So it has a bit more malt body & hop aroma/flavors. The dark ale kit as is has no aroma/flavor hops.
 
Unionrdr, you say you add the hops in 3 additions...is this while you are boiling the LME?

I may go to the store and grab an ounce of hops to add too then...I want to get a baseline, so I won't add as much as you quite yet.
 
9am53 said:
Unionrdr, you say you add the hops in 3 additions...is this while you are boiling the LME?

I may go to the store and grab an ounce of hops to add too then...I want to get a baseline, so I won't add as much as you quite yet.
Click to expand...

I don't boil the LME,since the only "LME" I use is the cooper's kit can. But,since I use 3lbs of DME,I start the boil with half of it,or 1.5lbs. So,since you're using the un-hopped malt can,I'd say use half of it for the boil. I do a 25 minute boil,as the kit can is bittered already.
My hop additions are 20minute,10 minutes,& 10 minutes at flame out. It puts the hop flavors on the back,so the malt can shine through at the beginning. Just a little bitterness. Then the hops come in at the end,or "on the back" as I like to say. And,2oz of hops isn't a lot,just enough to give more balance to the extra malt. So keep that in mind. I use low AA% aroma/flavor hops with these addition times. Less added bitterness that way,& since I'm doing flavor/aroma additions anyway,they fit right in.
 
Thanks. Just so that I am clear, you only boil half of your DME? why not all of it?

From what I have gathered I have come up with a slightly refined recipe, here goes:

I have 500g of the C60, I thought I would use half of that, steep it for 30 minutes, then once it's done add the 3 pounds of LME and some water bring it to a boil and do some hop additions. Boil it for half an hour, then put it into my bucket, add the coopers can, and some ice and aerate. Then top up with water, pitch and put in the basement. Since I have the maltodextrine, I thought I would add a tablespoon just for the little added mouthfeel to make the dark ale seem richer. Do you filter out the hops as you pour the mash into your ale pail? or do they stay in there and settle into the trub?

If I were to use something like fuggles or some other british lower/mid aa hops, could I do maybe 1 oz at 20 min, and 1 oz at flameout to give it some slight bitterness and aroma without being too much?

Thanks for basically giving me a recipe :) lol
 
9am53 said:
Thanks. Just so that I am clear, you only boil half of your DME? why not all of it?

From what I have gathered I have come up with a slightly refined recipe, here goes:

I have 500g of the C60, I thought I would use half of that, steep it for 30 minutes, then once it's done add the 3 pounds of LME and some water bring it to a boil and do some hop additions. Boil it for half an hour, then put it into my bucket, add the coopers can, and some ice and aerate. Then top up with water, pitch and put in the basement. Since I have the maltodextrine, I thought I would add a tablespoon just for the little added mouthfeel to make the dark ale seem richer. Do you filter out the hops as you pour the mash into your ale pail? or do they stay in there and settle into the trub?

If I were to use something like fuggles or some other british lower/mid aa hops, could I do maybe 1 oz at 20 min, and 1 oz at flameout to give it some slight bitterness and aroma without being too much?

Thanks for basically giving me a recipe :) lol
Click to expand...

Adding the bulk of the extract near the end of the boil helps keep the beer from darkening and tasting "carmelly" from boiling the extract in a small volume of water. It works great!

The ,250 grams of crystal can be steeped like you described, then removed and thrown away. Then bring the liquid up to a boil, and add the DME (or 1/2 of it if you want). Once you're at a boil, you can add the hops and boil 20 minutes like you suggested. Flame out hops will be good, also.

I don't know how much bittering you'd get from the Coopers but that should be adequate for this beer, so the two British hops additions at 20 minutes and flame out sound good to me. I prefer East Kent Goldings as I find fuggles a bit too earthy for me, but either is fine.

You can strain the wort through a sanitized strainer on the way into the fermenter if you want to. I don't. The hops sludge will all compact on the bottom with the spent yeast and other stuff like coagulated proteins as trub.
 
9am53 said:
Thanks. Just so that I am clear, you only boil half of your DME? why not all of it?

From what I have gathered I have come up with a slightly refined recipe, here goes:

I have 500g of the C60, I thought I would use half of that, steep it for 30 minutes, then once it's done add the 3 pounds of LME and some water bring it to a boil and do some hop additions. Boil it for half an hour, then put it into my bucket, add the coopers can, and some ice and aerate. Then top up with water, pitch and put in the basement. Since I have the maltodextrine, I thought I would add a tablespoon just for the little added mouthfeel to make the dark ale seem richer. Do you filter out the hops as you pour the mash into your ale pail? or do they stay in there and settle into the trub?

If I were to use something like fuggles or some other british lower/mid aa hops, could I do maybe 1 oz at 20 min, and 1 oz at flameout to give it some slight bitterness and aroma without being too much?

Thanks for basically giving me a recipe :) lol
Click to expand...

It seems that too much malt in the boil not only darkens the brew,but lowers hop oil utilization. Steep all of the C60. Get through hot break. And sugars (if used) go in at flame out. Add half the DME/ plain LME to do hop additions. Mine are 20mins,10mins,& 10 minutes at flame out. Then stir in all remaining fermentables. This gives lighter color. Not to mention,cleaner,un-caramelized flavors.
I don't filter the hops,etc out after chilling & adding to the fermenter. I use hop sacks to keep it all cleaner to start with. British hops are classic ale hop additions. I do 1oz at 20mins,.5oz at 10 mins,& the remaining .5oz at flame out for 10 minutes with the lid on.
No problem with the "recipe"...it's a basic method that gives a nice balance of malt & hop flavors. It puts the hop flavors "on the back",so you get some lightly bittered malt flavor right before the hops come in. English & German ales are like that.
 
thanks guys. Now one last question - if you add the last half of the LME after the boil to avoid the caramelly darkness, would this half not end up boiling and hot breaking? Is this not a problem? I thought you wanted to get the hot break with the malt.
 
9am53 said:
thanks guys. Now one last question - if you add the last half of the LME after the boil to avoid the caramelly darkness, would this half not end up boiling and hot breaking? Is this not a problem? I thought you wanted to get the hot break with the malt.
Click to expand...

No, it's not a problem. Sometimes you get a small hot break with the extract, sometimes not. It's already been processed, so it's not a problem if you don't get a hot break.
 

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