Cleanest yeast for 78-82 F

I recently moved into a 393 square foot New York City apartment. I have NO room for fermentation temp control, but my apartment is at a steady 78-82 year round. I've searched wyeast temp reccomendations and here's what' I've come up with: below is a list of wyeast that have ferm. temps listed upto 78 F or higher. The Belgian strains as a group have the highest average temps overall, but I left out the lambics/sours.

There are only four yeast listed with a temperature range greater than or equal to 78 F.

3724 | Belgian Saison™ (Spicy, aromatic, mild fruity, acidic)
Temperature Range: 70-95F, 21-35C

1388 | Belgian Strong Ale™ (complex ester, subtle phenolics)
Temperature Range: 64-80° F (18-27° C)

1214 | Belgian Abbey™ (esters, spicy)
Temperature Range: 68-78° F (20-24° C)

3787 | Trappist High Gravity™ (balance of fruity esters and phenolics)
Temperature Range: 64-78F, 18-25C

I've tried a few yeast with varying success. 1187 Ringwood (64-74F) was really fruity and stalled around 1.020. Nottingham never lets me down, but can get a little harsh with a slight nasty fruity/banana flavor if temps get into the 80s. I have a 1332 Northwest Ale (65-75 F) in secondary right now, that's coming out without any off flavors, little friuty and malty just like wyeast describes it.

Any body have any experience with hi temp fermentation. Any suggestions for an APA?

Look up swamp cooler. If you have room for a bucket you'll have room for a swamp cooler. All you need is a rubbermaid tote, fill it up half way with water then add frozen water bottles to it to the lowest temp you can get. Then just swap the frozen bottles out a few times a day. You should be able to get you temps in the mid to high 60's that way.

Chill to mid fifties, pitch an aggressive strain, and let ride. Without active cooling I think an apa is out of the question. Look into some cooling methods alternatively.

Thanks for the advice guys. My Keggle already takes up the entire pantry. Maybe I can make some room in my closet. I do enjoy Duval, I presume the 1388 Belgian Strong Ale yeast is appropriate? But I understand that even Duval gets cooled in the secondary. I guess the answer really is temp control. Bogus.

There are a few yeast strains (that you have already researched) that work optimally at higher temps. The problem is none of them are "clean" and actually impart many flavors that make the yeast characteristics unique. You could try sticking to belgian styles for your beers since they have anything from pale ales, to session beers (saison), to strong ales.

You could also try them in a roasty beer like a stout to see if it masks the phenols/esters but I would try with small batches to start!

1388 IS the Duvel strain, and yes you will need temp control somehow or another.

Even the Duvel strain needs to start at about 68f, or else it spits out headachey fusel alcohols (or so I hear).

I think you're stuck with Saison yeast strains. I'd recommend 3711 French Saison, which I believe has a wider range of fermentation temperatures than reported on the label. Just try to keep the beer cooler while the yeast is in its growth phase.

Another strain you should look out for is the seasonal wyeast 3725 Biere De Garde. It's very clean for a Saison yeast.

Check out commercial saisons like Pretty Things Jack D'Or--that's pretty close to an APA; close as you can get with Belgian yeast.

you have a keggle in a 400sf apartment!? lmao, that's awesome

I'm in the same boat as you, small apartment in brooklyn etc. I do have a ferm chamber in the basement but it only holds one carboy and I like to brew a lot. I just tried a saison with the 3711. Read up on it. Its an awesome yeast and if your apartments sitting in the mid 70's like mine it works great.

I agree with DannPM. Your pitching temp is going to make the difference.

I normally use half gallon 48-72 hour fresh starters, which I think is helping me to control the bannana esters to a good extent. I am NOT a "Raging ***** Belgian IPA" fan.

The idea of high fusals from Belgian Golden fermented too high really turns me off (I think I've been getting them from Nottingham too). Mayabe I'll try one or all of these Saisons yeasts and have a little experiment. I'm about to have a pretty massive amount of cascade from my garden, and was thinking about making a simple Marris Otter/Crystal 80 Imperial Pale Ale recipe with it that I could split into 3 or 4 batches.

this is from "Esters" at

http://brewiki.org/BeerFlavours

"...ester production is related to yeast growth but not in the way you might think. The key element to yeast growth and ester production is acyl Co-A. It is necessary for both yeast growth and ester production. When it is busy with yeast growth, during the early part of the fermentation, it is not available for ester production. Ester production is directly related to biomass production. Everything that increases biomass production (intensive aeration, sufficient amount of unsaturated fatty acids, stirring) decreases ester production. The more biomass that is produced the more Co-enzyme A is used and therefore not available for ester production. Anything that inhibits or slows down yeast growth usually causes an increase in ester production: low nutrient, low O2. It has been noted that a drop in available O2 from 8 ppm down to 3 ppm can cause a four fold increase in esters."

From some recent things I've been reading on pitching rates I was about to reduce my starters from 0.5 gallons to 0.25 gallons. But after reading this I think I'll keep doing what I'm doing.

I only live 2 blocks form Tap Room 307 and saw that they had the "Jack D'or Americon Saison". Just got back from dessert! Also had a sample of "Canard Noir Dark Saison".

My girlfriend described the Jack D'or as "a bitter banana." Surprisingly accurate. Don't get me wrong, it's a great beer if you're after something way Belgian. There's a lot of pepper form the yeast, just a little citrus, and strong esters. It's only American in the bittering IMO. The hops aroma and flavor were a bit lost among the yeast profile. One thing that I really liked was a surprisingly smoothe mouthfeel, almost like oatmeal!

I was a bit surprised by the Canard Noir. I tasted a lot of Roasty, and it covered up the yeast character almost completely. I'm wondering if the roast was really hiding the esters or if they weren't there. If they were really that low maybe I need to find out what yeast they were using.

Found this little article that mentioned Canard Noir. Looks like it uses the French Saison strain.

http://www.lipulse.com/blog/article...-greenport-licbw-beer-super-neat-english-ipa/

Identical in malts and hops to Black Duck Porter, Canard Noir (“Duck Black&#8221 is the addition of French Saison yeast to the original recipe, and a result, a “dry and pepper-like spiciness and tropical fruitiness” to its flavor profile.

I put my buckets/carboys into an igloo ice cube cooler that I fill with water, and then stick in frozen water bottles to control temps. It takes up only a bit more space than the fermenter itself, and does a fantastic job of temperature control. The same cooler also doubles as my mash tun.

I was checking those out. They are/were on sale at Walmart. But I'm serious when I say there's no more room. Maybe I can take over the bath tub for the first ~20 hours and toss in some frozen gallon jugs of ice.

What about brewing smaller batches 2 or 3 gallon batches that would fit into a smaller temperature controlled mini fridge.

Jawbox0 said:

What about brewing smaller batches 2 or 3 gallon batches that would fit into a smaller temperature controlled mini fridge.

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That's not a bad idea. Or maybe I should try and go the other way and start making lagers that will fit in my refrigerator!

You aren't going to be able to ferment lagers properly in a fridge, assuming you are using it for storing food and whatnot at the same time. This is because you typically do primary fermentation around the 48-55F range but lager colder than that.

Swamp cooler? I live in an apartment where my space is pretty limited. Yeah, I get the 1 room studio thing - been a while since I've done that - but my swamp cooler consists of one of those plastic storage tubs from MalWart (Target, etc.) filled half with water, throw a towel over the carboy, and then swap in (and out) a couple of those plastic cooler "freeze" packs. Point a small fan at the towel and voila! Temperature control!

Literally, I do this in my bedroom or in the living room. I swear by the swamp cooler - it seems like a PITA but it's not that bad and gives you a bit more flexibility of what you can brew.

Alright you guys have convinced me. I'm going to find the tightest fitting outer bucket I can and get to swamp cooling. The GF is gunna love this...

gigapunk said:

Alright you guys have convinced me. I'm going to find the tightest fitting outer bucket I can and get to swamp cooling. The GF is gunna love this...

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If you have room for the fermenting bucket or carboy, you have room for a swamp cooler. Target sells a rubber tub for like $6 that is maybe a few inches bigger around than a fermenting bucket. These things work AMAZINGLY well, too.

I live in the attic of my house here at school and it just collects all the heat from the day. I have a small window unit to be able to sleep. Ambient it usually 78 in the day at the lowest. My swamp cooler with 2 half gallon frozen water jugs, plus a bunch of bandannas and a fan blowing on it sits at 66 during the day, and 62 at night. (I don't use any frozen jugs at night)

Here is my set up. The fan is aimed at the fermenting vessel during the day, and usually during the night unless it is hot!

gigapunk said:

I recently moved into a 393 square foot New York City apartment. I have NO room for fermentation temp control, but my apartment is at a steady 78-82 year round. I've searched wyeast temp reccomendations...

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When life gives you lemons... just become the best dang Bière de Garde and Saison brewer you can possibly become.


I live in Utah and I ferment in my basement at an ambient 75F during the August month. I find my 6.5% Bière de Garde comes out well using the Wyeast Wit. I let the carboys rest on the cement floor (a touch cooler by conduction) for the first week and then put them on a wedge of wood upon a 4-foot high shelf for a week before racking to kegs.

Here's my latest Roggenbeire at High Kroisen and only 72 degrees! Way better than my normal 78-82! Thanks for the push guys.

Swamp cooler temp control is for the birds, really, just get the tiniest chest freezer you can, a temp controller and if space is still a problem, ferment in a different vessel, you can order a variety of different (square/rectangular) shaped ones online at places like US Plastics. You'd be really suprised how little space 5-6 gallons takes when its square and not in carboy form.

badmajon said:

Swamp cooler temp control is for the birds, really, just get the tiniest chest freezer you can, a temp controller and if space is still a problem, ferment in a different vessel, you can order a variety of different (square/rectangular) shaped ones online at places like US Plastics. You'd be really suprised how little space 5-6 gallons takes when its square and not in carboy form.

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I would think that most people who stay in the hobby would eventually go that route. But it's crazy how much I seem to spend. I've been home brewing for less than two years , and it seems like everytime I go for ingredients I end up buying at least one new piece of equipment. And my $30 of ingredients always ends up in an $80+ charge before I'm out the door. I'll eventually have real temp control, but probably not this year.

badmajon said:

Swamp cooler temp control is for the birds, really, just get the tiniest chest freezer you can, a temp controller and if space is still a problem, ferment in a different vessel, you can order a variety of different (square/rectangular) shaped ones online at places like US Plastics. You'd be really suprised how little space 5-6 gallons takes when its square and not in carboy form.

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I can't because of space. Not that I can't fit it in my room at school, but the house is OLD. The outlets don't even have the third plug for grounding and my room (entire second floor) only has 2 outlets haha. Plus I could barely fit my minifridge through the door, so I don't think a chest freezer would fit.

Prionburger said:

Even the Duvel strain needs to start at about 68f, or else it spits out headachey fusel alcohols (or so I hear).

I think you're stuck with Saison yeast strains. I'd recommend 3711 French Saison, which I believe has a wider range of fermentation temperatures than reported on the label. Just try to keep the beer cooler while the yeast is in its growth phase.

Another strain you should look out for is the seasonal wyeast 3725 Biere De Garde. It's very clean for a Saison yeast.

Check out commercial saisons like Pretty Things Jack D'Or--that's pretty close to an APA; close as you can get with Belgian yeast.

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Exactly what I was going to suggest. I use the 3725 as a house strain and I use the 3711 for a cleaner non funk saison. If I want funk I use 3724 and finish with 3711 or just pitch both together for a slight funk.

How much banana are you guys getting out of 3725?

Not much at all in my case. It ferments very much like 3711 does, with very similar attenuation and mouthfeel, but with a much more subdued ester profile.

3711 has no banana either, from my experience (4 brews).

This is from fermenting in the low 70s mind you.

gigapunk said:

How much banana are you guys getting out of 3725?

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Zero. Fermented 1 at 85 and 1 at 68 and haven't gotten any.

boostsr20 said:

Zero. Fermented 1 at 85 and 1 at 68 and haven't gotten any.

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I did a search and it sounds like you're not the only one. A lot of folks getting pretty clean profiles at all kinds of temps.

Another thing that my search showed was crazy low final gravities, while still maintaining body and maltyness! Crazy. Mixed reports on flocculation though.

gigapunk said:

Another thing that my search showed was crazy low final gravities, while still maintaining body and maltyness! Crazy. Mixed reports on flocculation though.

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Just needs time cold. I'll try to get you a pic of my biere de garde. Crystal clear. Won a gold medal score 43 by a national judge and a brewer from Founders. Nicely malty with a 1.008 fg.

3711 from my experiences has no problem clearing up. Each one of my beers with that yeast was crystal clear after a few weeks in the fridge. 3725 was the same for me. Really , if your beer doesn't get some cold conditioning, it'll be hazy no matter the yeast.

I have had clean fermentations at up to 31c using Australian ale yeast(Morgans/briglow)which I believe to be Mauribrew ale yeast.

its the end of summer, people throw **** out ilke crazy in nyc, go pick up a small free air condtioner on craigslist,

buy some of the hard insulation boards, cut it up so that it will fit your fermentation container, prop the air conditioner unit up on wood or blocks or whatever you have, build a box

ductape the edges, make a ghetto door with the insulation

shoudl be able to set the a/c to the right temp

then you wont have to worry about changing out frozen bottles of water

I'm throwing in another recommendation for Wyeast 3711. I have the same challenge - small apartment, and SWMBO does not like swamp coolers sitting around her living space. Plus, keeping up with the plastic bottles of ice takes up half my freezer space. So, I just decided to try 3711. So far, I've brewed two traditional Saisons. Now, I'm going to start experimenting with other styles using 3711. Since this yeast tends to finish dry, I think raising the mash temps will be key for maltier, sweeter ales.

Plus, I read a great article in Zymergy from 2008 about Saisons and he mentioned the Scottish influence on Belgian Saison beers. I think it has something to do with the "Auld Alliance" between France and Scotland, maybe? Unsure, but inspired me to experiment with 3711 on styles other than Saison and ferment at my typical room temperature without strict fermentation temp control.