What should I ask for Christmas (Single Tier Brew Stand)

The family is asking what I want for Christmas and I figured Id go ahead and get some items for a brewstand. Im looking at making the switch to all grain early next year. They want the list soon...as in like a couple of days. My wife and I are looking to have kids next year, so this is probably MY last Christmas.

Since they need it so soon I dont have a lot of time for research. I know I can go through threads and find some answers but Im in a hurry.

I have three kegs waiting to be converted.

I was thinking about the biggies:

3 - Banjo Burners (which model?)
2 - March Pumps (any specific one?)

I can get some angle iron from my brother who works at Nucor Steel, so that shouldnt be a problem.

Anything else you guys might recommend?

Scrap the banjo burners and ask for some electric goodies!

I believe most people use the march 809 pumps.

You could ask for a false bottom, hop screen, sight glasses, thermometers?

ParanoidAndroid said:

The family is asking what I want for Christmas and I figured Id go ahead and get some items for a brewstand. Im looking at making the switch to all grain early next year. They want the list soon...as in like a couple of days. My wife and I are looking to have kids next year, so this is probably MY last Christmas.

Since they need it so soon I dont have a lot of time for research. I know I can go through threads and find some answers but Im in a hurry.

I have three kegs waiting to be converted.

I was thinking about the biggies:

3 - Banjo Burners (which model?)
2 - March Pumps (any specific one?)

I can get some angle iron from my brother who works at Nucor Steel, so that shouldnt be a problem.

Anything else you guys might recommend?

Click to expand...

rofl! i'm impressed by the blichmann burners

Ahs has sale on march pump dunno bout now. Chugger pump pretty good.

the fittings were the parts that added up the quickest. couplers, half couplers, ball valves.

what's your cooling solution? IC? plate chiller? CFC?

love my march pump 809 HS (high speed).

Antler said:

Scrap the banjo burners and ask for some electric goodies!

I believe most people use the march 809 pumps.

You could ask for a false bottom, hop screen, sight glasses, thermometers?

Click to expand...

Would like to do electric but wouldnt I have to switch over an outlet to 240V?






I also have a 50ft Copper CFC.

Question on the pumps:
Do the pumps sit in between each keg and do they just move the liquid from 1 to 2 to 3....or do you use one of the pumps for recirculating?

for 10 gallon batches you will want 240v. if that's not plausible in your brewing location then propane it is.

for the pumps, they end up in many different configurations depending on some brewing preferences.

start your brew day by heating water in the HLT.
add this water to the MLT with your grains (doughing in). use one of the pumps to push the water from HLT -> MLT
add more water to HLT if necessary to have proper amount of sparge water, start heating to proper temp.

**question 1*** how do you plan on maintaining temperature for your mash or adjusting temp?
HERMS? you would run your pump from MLT -> 50' copper coil in HLT -> MLT in a loop. the liquid inside the copper coil works like a heat exchanger to build heat. you can also run the second pump to try and mix up the HLT by just going HLT->HLT to keep fresh water on the HERMS coil.

RIMS? MLT -> RIMS -> MLT. this is like herms but directly heating the wort, not using a heat exchanger.

Direct Fire MLT? add heat to the bottom of the mlt with propane. this will require recirculation from bottom of MLT to top of MLT with one pump to ensure you don't scortch the wort.

Insulated MLT? no active heating, just insulate the MLT and hope for the best.

hopes and dreams?

at the end of the mash, pump the wort in the mash tun to the boil kettle. now you have some of the volume in your BK and must sparge (rinse grains) to get the rest of the sugars out and hit your boil volume. if you have 2 or 3 burners you could have just heated HLT water and MLT water at the same time.

***question 2*** what is your sparge method?
No Sparge: you add no rinse water to gather sugar still stuck to the grain. this method is FAST, just drain the MLT and you're done, but you have to have much bigger grain bills since you're leaving a lot of stuff in the MLT. results in more expensive grain bills.
batch sparge: 1 or 2 "batches" of water get taken from the HLT, moved to the MLT. stir the MLT, redrain. repeat. this gets more sugars out of the MLT grains but is slower.
fly sparge: basically you add water to the MLT while draining wort out of the bottom. it's continuous sparging. you must set your input and output flow rates the same... slower but more efficient. requires 2 pumps or a gravity setup. pump 1 MLT -> BK. pump 2 HLT -> MLT.

at the end of your sparge you have all your volume in your BK. you start your boil, add your hops, add your finings. i like to run my pump bk -> bk for the last 15 min to sanitize the pump and the lines. also boil your 50' IC for the last 15 minutes.

turn off heat, begin cooling wort. i recirculate my pump BK -> BK to give motion in the kettle to help the IC work faster.

once you hit pitching/fermentation temp, transfer from BK -> fermenter(s).

Ok after don't some research it looks like I might go single tier with a cooler for a mash tun. I like the idea of a rims or herms but from what I've read the costs don't justify the benefits. So that would be something in the future.

There is a LOT of planning that goes into a proper stand, so I'd suggest that since you don't have time to fill out all the details...just ask for what you KNOW you'll need. I would probably say a pump or two, fermenters, ball valves, high temp hose, couplers for the kegs, etc. There's a lot of little details that need to be figured out with fittings, connections, etc...and it depends on how you want the process to work, welded vs weldless, etc. To give you an idea, I spent months planning out my end game into all grain...not the whole time, but I wanted to minimize repurchasing things.

I would agree that a cooler MLT is a good bet for a beginner system. That's the route I went and am happy with it. Eventually, I want an automated MLT, but I'm fine with a cooler for now. A 10G round will serve you well for pretty much all 5G batches and some 10G, but a larger 70QT+ Coleman Extreme would be good for massive 5G/10G batches.

Edit: After thinking about it for a second, I would ask for gift certificates to Northern Brewer, Brew Hardware, etc....popular places. Kind of lame, but would give you more time to think about it and make sure you don't have anything you won't use when it comes to build time.

+1. i thought i had my stand "all figured out" after a few weeks of planning. i ended up with 3 different fitting orders from Bargain Fittings, some stuff from Northern and Brew Hardware, and then ultimately got the grinder out and cut about a foot out of the height of the stand. i started propane and am now going electric. i went weldless, then converted to soldered and am now contemplating starting new keggles with the bottoms cut out for bottom drains because the need for dip tubes seems silly to me.

a part of this is that the joy of brewing for me is tweaking the process... but realize you will never be "finished" so don't put anything on your list that you don't KNOW you need (ball valves, pumps, possibly the cooler, gift certs.

List:

2-Banjo Burners (have no idea on which one-saw a 210000 btu on Northern Brewer)
1-HP Regulator

Im still confused about gas plumbing and need to do some research. But what I understand is ill have the propane tank with an HP regulator attached to that. One line coming off the regulator going all the way down the stand. Wherever I want a burner, Ill need a valve to go to that burner. Ill just shut off and on depending on which burner in using.

2-March Pumps
1-10 gallon Cooler for Mash Tun

I can get the small stuff on my own (or giftcard to Adventures in HB)

I paid 40 piece or so on the bg14 burners (the big ones).

get a bigger cooler.

Is there such thing as a 15 gallon circular cooler for a tun. Everything Ive seen thats 15 gallons is rectangular, which puts the colle closer to burners.

I use a 10 gallon MLT and it's big enough for me. I don't ever see me doing 10 gallon batches, but if YOU do, then you NEED a bigger tun.

Ok. Ill look into a bigger tun as I see myself doing some 10 galloners in the future.

Is there a post/website which gives the burner/propane/piping basics. Difference bw LP/HP? why would I need either? best burner? how do I run piping to each burner? how do I mount? what valves do I need?.....etc.

Im an engineer and fairly handy, but I hate dealing with electrical and gas. I learn from trial and error a lot of times, and theres not much room for error with those two.

Ive searched a ton, but all posts seem to start off with a requirement of basic knowledge that I dont have.

I struggled with a lot of this same thing, too...missing a bunch of basic knowledge that wasn't allowing me to complete the picture. Keep searching, reading threads and eventually it will all start to "click."

LP is generally preferred for automation, mostly because the common inexpensive valves are LP. You can do HP, but it adds significantly to the cost. Burners...most go with the 10" BG-14 style, but there's a good argument for having smaller ones on the MLT since it doesn't require as much heat. You'll be piping via iron pipe, T connectors and such...look for gas manifolds for a lot of different designs. Most will put a valve inline to allow gas flow control. Typically, your true gas connections are flare style and pipe thread for your pipes...so you need to figure out a way to go from thread to thread, wherever it makes the most sense (usually close to the burner itself). Mounting can be done several different way, but most incorporate a burner shround/heat shield. There are purchasable mounts available or you can figure out how to DIY. Valves are fairly standard, look in the automation/DIY thread for different combinations of PID's/valves that are commonly used together. Most go with Honeywell valves and Auber PID's for control.

This is a fairly common automation setup for gas, but there's more than one way to skin the cat. Obviously, fittings and such are dependent on how you actually want to run things. There is a gas automation sticky around here that also has another way to do it and also provides for automatic relighting of the pilot, should it go out. (The following design just shuts off.)

Honeywell VR8200A2132 Valve
Honeywell Q390A1046 Thermocouple
Honeywell Q314A4586 Pilot Burner
Auber Instruments Universal 1/16 Temp Controller

Hope that helps fill in some of the basics.

Ok.thanks.

I'll be going with the bg14 most likely. One for hlt and other for brew kettle. A cooler will be used for MT. Do I need a HP regulator for each burner? What about an orifice?

I've seen two different designs. Typically, most people run a single LP regulator off their tank and then go into the manifold/valves/burners. I've also seen some where some have a HP regulator at the tank and then use LP regulators before their HLT/MLT valves, and then pipe the BK burner straight in. The latter allows the boil kettle to run HP (better performance), while still permitting the inexpensive LP valves for automation of the HLT/MLT. In my research, I've preferred the former design (all LP), if anything just to simplify things but also to save money on regulators.

If you go LP, you will need to get a HP to LP orifice for most of the common burners out there (e.g. BG-14). They can be found at Williams Brewing and a couple other online shops I can't recall at the moment. You can also drill out the HP orifice, but to me, that seems a little risky and I prefer a "to spec" approach when it comes to gas.

Damn this is confusing.

Going back to your previous post about automation and L.P., I'll be going no automation. Just a pump n two burners. So that means I'm all HP?

Yeah, if you have no intention of automation, there's no compelling reason to not go HP. It's just a simple matter of switching your regulator later, should you decide to build onto it. All you'd need is the HP regulator, a manifold, two valves for controlling your gas (you could do it at the tank regulator, but it's probably best to control them independently, just in case you want to do back to back batches) and the appropriate fittings/hoses. Use hard pipe as your manifold, with T's or elbows at your junction points, and gas safe flex hose to attach to the orifice. You'll need to go from iron pipe thread to flare thread past your gas control valve to mate up with the HP orifice. You can have a custom hose made for you or there may be adapters out there. (I've had trouble finding adapters, just FYI, but they're probably out there.)

revco said:

Yeah, if you have no intention of automation, there's no compelling reason to not go HP. It's just a simple matter of switching your regulator later, should you decide to build onto it. All you'd need is the HP regulator, a manifold, two valves for controlling your gas (you could do it at the tank regulator, but it's probably best to control them independently, just in case you want to do back to back batches) and the appropriate fittings/hoses. Use hard pipe as your manifold, with T's or elbows at your junction points, and gas safe flex hose to attach to the orifice. You'll need to go from iron pipe thread to flare thread past your gas control valve to mate up with the HP orifice. You can have a custom hose made for you or there may be adapters out there. (I've had trouble finding adapters, just FYI, but they're probably out there.)

Click to expand...

Revco, could you look at my drawing in my new thread and see if that looks alright?