Kegging will be the death of me

So my 1st year of kegging has gone like this... awesomeness, awesomeness, drained tank, awesomeness, bad regulator, awesomeness, awesomeness, drained tank, awesomeness, drained tank.

Just opened my fridge this morning to see the tank is again drained for the 4th time, totally out of the blue, and was working/holding pressure fine for the last few weeks. I really thought I had everything fixed this last time.

I'm starting to get pretty frustrated with leaks that seem to spring up out of nowhere. One time it was a weld in my lid that was all of a sudden cracked, 1 bad gas post, 1 bad regulator (co2 coming out of the screw), and this time I'm not sure yet... I might just throw them out the window.

I check almost daily and have never noticed my tank pressure gradually decreasing, it's either full or empty. This leads me to believe there is no slow leak, just a leak that magically appears like clockwork every 5-6 weeks. I've spent a lot of time checking & fixing leaks, and I'm very confident there is no leak when I finish this process.

Pretty effin flustered right now and not quite sure what this post is for...I'm either ranting, looking for words of encouragement, or tips from more experienced users. I don't see what I could be doing wrong?

Thanks HBT.

FYI the kegs are used ball locks from Midwest, all in pretty good shape, all came with new lid seals and some with all new seals. Regulator is brand new dual pressure, the higher end model.

ja09 said:

I check almost daily and have never noticed my tank pressure gradually decreasing, it's either full or empty. This leads me to believe there is no slow leak, just a leak that magically appears like clockwork every 5-6 weeks.

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You have a slow leak. Since CO2 is stored as a liquid (not a gas), the tank pressure will remain constant at a given temperature until the tank is almost empty.

Sorry you've been having all these issues. It can indeed be very frustrating to track down a stubborn leak. But keep at it!

A leaky keg usually is relatively easy to diagnose, but regulator leaks can be very hard to track down for sure. Make sure your gas QDs aren't leaking (submerge them in water), make sure your lid o-ring isn't leaking, make sure your posts aren't leaking around the bottom (with soapy water or star san). Put fresh o-rings on the gas posts, and lube them. Check all the barbed connections, check any MFL fittings, etc.

Sounds like you are just having a lot of bad luck with your system. If you went back to bottling you'd probably be happy to deal with this occasional frustration instead.

zachattack said:

Put fresh o-rings on the gas posts, and lube them. Check all the barbed connections, check any MFL fittings, etc.

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Thanks for the feedback. Do you put keg lube on the gas dip tube o-ring?

Picked up a new tank, guess I'll start from the beginning checking for leaks!

I like to set my pressure for desired carbonation and shake the dickens out of it to bring it up to full carb. Then shut off the CO2 at the tank and disconnect everything if I'm going to be leaving it for a while. I check it periodically to make sure that it is holding full carbonation by turning on the tank and if I don't hear CO2 dumping into the keg, then I know I'm close or at least holding pressure.

One time, one of my regulators had a tendency to creep and I think it creeped up past the regulator pressure relief valve's blow off point and emptied my newly filled tank when I wasn't around. (I was carbonating a soda at room temp, so really high pressure anyway, it's not like it creeped that far.) I found my tank sitting in a puddle of condensation the next morning from freezing up while emptying, so I can only speculate as to what exactly happened. After that happened, I don't leave a keg to force carbonate unattended anymore.

A very useful technique to help isolate if its the kegs or the regulator/co2 connection is to simply turn on the gas and unplug your QDs going to your kegs, then turn off the gas at tank. If it holds the pressure already in the regulator/hoses over time, then that part is solid. If it loses pressure just sitting there, then you know there's something in that system that is leaking. Dunk it all in a big plastic tub (except for the regulator) and you can see if it's the connection at the tank, or one of the QDs, etc.

It's amazing how many possible points of failure there really is. I lost a tank of gas due to a bad connection from the tank to the regulator. I thought I had completely tightened it down as far as was humanly possible. Finally dunked it into a plastic bin of water and could see tiny bubbles coming up from the nut. A fraction of a crank more with my wrench, and suddenly the bubbles are gone and happiness replaces it.

I only turn my C02 on when I'm going to draw a beer because of pesky leaks.

negativereaction said:

..... I lost a tank of gas due to a bad connection from the tank to the regulator. I thought I had completely tightened it down as far as was humanly possible. Finally dunked it into a plastic bin of water and could see tiny bubbles coming up from the nut. A fraction of a crank more with my wrench, and suddenly the bubbles are gone and happiness replaces it.

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FWIW, there should be a gasket at the regulator to tank valve connection.

raouliii said:

FWIW, there should be a gasket at the regulator to tank valve connection.

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Good idea to check that. Those things can grow wings and disappear when you take your regulator off the tank.

All my kegs are used, and I had a hell of a time with leaks. If your lids are leaking, which was where mine were, you can put a couple of pennies under the legs on the lid to get them a little tighter. That used to be my trick. Now when I first go to purge the keg, I hit it with co2 at 30psi to get that lid really seated. Then spray some star San around the lid to check for leaks. This works so well that I stopped using the pennies. Star San really bubbles up, that's why it best for this. Then I go ahead and purge the keg. Also, make sure you have hose clamps on all your connections, and use keg lube.

Good luck. Very frustrating. I used to not leave my gas on all the time.

Good advice in this thread.

-I lube all orings (lid, dip tubes, poppets) on the keg very liberally
-Make sure the gasket between the regulator and the tank is in place
-Crank down the connection between the regulator and the tank
-Once you've got everything ready to go, hit the tank with a high PSI (30+) of C02 to seal the lid. This is something I didn't realize at first and lost a tank to it. Kegs can sometimes hold pressure at high PSI's, but slowly leak at low PSI's. By giving it a quick high PSI burst to begin with, you help create a better seal.
-If you suspect the leak is somewhere on a keg, you can try pressurizing it and then holding it under water in the bathtub while looking for bubbles. I've never done this, but some people find it helps when they can't find a leak with a spray bottle of star san

Don't give up!

Some tanks use an O ring where it connects to the regulator. They tend to leak.....Use a washer instead.

Check valves dude, check valves.

PDX_T said:

Check valves dude, check valves.

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How would a check valve prevent a leak? I suppose it would prevent the keg from losing pressure if you lost a tank of gas to a leak upstream of the check valve.

Or do you mean shut off valves?

looks like there's a few votes for closing the shutoff valve between pours. Is this a common practice?

I can't say I've even thought about doing this... guess I believed the system should work and hold pressure indefinitely without a problem.

ja09 said:

guess I believed the system should work and hold pressure indefinitely without a problem.

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It should.....I ran out of my summer supply of home brew a month ago.
I have 10 gallons ready for this week end,so I was just cleaning my lines etc, and I have as much gas in the bottle as I did a month ago.
I never shut the tank off but I do have a valve going to each keg that I did shut off. (The ball locks may leak when not attached to a keg.)
Otherwise, I never shut them off.

My vote is for creating a leak free system so that you don't have to mess with the gas every time you want a beer. Besides, how are you going to force carb a keg if you can't trust your gas to be on for longer than a few hours at a time?

Leak free is ideal. But when you're unsure, turning it off gives you peace of mind. Troubleshoot until you find the leaks, then leave it on.

JuanMoore said:

How would a check valve prevent a leak? I suppose it would prevent the keg from losing pressure if you lost a tank of gas to a leak upstream of the check valve.

Or do you mean shut off valves?

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Precisely. I'd rather lose a cylinder of CO2 than have off flavors.

A simple solution that was already mentioned generally works most of the time. - open up the tank all the way and Spray every connection with Star San, spray all tank lids, posts, any place where the gas could possibly leak out - if it is leaking it will bubble, plain and simple. If this does not solve the problem then you need to look into replacing things.

My own experience was that I was having leaks and a terrible time with it (refilled my tank about 5 times in a few month span) until I took my kegs apart and installed universal poppets. Best thing I did, my whole system works great now. You'll get mixed reviews on these but my two cents is they're great.

Poppets only matter with unconnected posts. Once a QD is installed the poppet is doing absolutely nothing wrt leaks - it's all on the post O-ring at that point. You could literally remove the poppets from a keg and the plungers from the QDs, hook 'em all together and have no leaks...

Cheers!

WOW.. This thread is making me re-think the kegerator project I thought I wanted to do. Maybe bottling isn't so bad after all... But kegging sounds so nice except for all this leak talk. Is it really that common? Does this affect your beer? I'd be pretty bummed if a leaky system whacked my beer. :|

Nagorg said:

WOW.. This thread is making me re-think the kegerator project I thought I wanted to do. Maybe bottling isn't so bad after all... But kegging sounds so nice except for all this leak talk. Is it really that common? Does this affect your beer? I'd be pretty bummed if a leaky system whacked my beer. :|

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I've never had a leak or lost a tank of gas.
I also have a 20# Tank I use for carbing, purging head space, blowing out computers ETC........

Nagorg said:

WOW.. This thread is making me re-think the kegerator project I thought I wanted to do. Maybe bottling isn't so bad after all... But kegging sounds so nice except for all this leak talk. Is it really that common? Does this affect your beer? I'd be pretty bummed if a leaky system whacked my beer. :|

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I think you have to assume you'll have some issues, especially with used kegs and other parts.. but I didn't expect to have this many!

It hasn't affected any of my beers, I don't see how it could. You still have a layer of co2 protecting the beer, unless you somehow blow a bunch of oxygen/air in there.

Yes it's totally annoying, but still way better than bottling!

Glad to hear not everyone has this leak streak! But this seriously doesn't affect the beer? Seems like being subjected to cyclic pressurization couldn't have a positive impact. But maybe it is truly zero impact.

Wouldn't know - my systems have never leaked - but it's not like there's a lot of drama to be had just losing some pressure for a couple of days...

Cheers!

day_trippr said:

but it's not like there's a lot of drama to be had just losing some pressure for a couple of days...

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Do you have room to put your co2 tank on a cheap mechanical scale? As the co2 leaves the tank the tank will get lighter, sudden or unexplained weight loss on the tank would indicate a problem sooner than the pressure valve would.

MangoMead said:

Do you have room to put your co2 tank on a cheap mechanical scale? As the co2 leaves the tank the tank will get lighter, sudden or unexplained weight loss on the tank would indicate a problem sooner than the pressure valve would.

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That's actually a great idea if I had one. It would definitely help monitor this problem, but I'd think the scale would have to be a precise one

ja09 said:

That's actually a great idea if I had one. It would definitely help monitor this problem, but I'd think the scale would have to be a precise one

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Those tanks hold about 5lbs of CO2 right? So a cheap kitchen scale would work probably. It would not have to be exactly calibrated, just have the right range to notice if it drops a half pound overnight.