step mashing question

I am looking to brew a Weiss beer this weekend and was wondering a few items. I am relatively new to all grain brewing, only two brews under my belt, and am wondering if the different rest temperatures really make a difference?

The recipe I am looking at calls for a 99° dough in temp for 30 minutes then 122° with a 20 minute rest for protein and beta-glucan, then 145° for 60 minutes.

From what I have read and I could be wrong, today's malts no longer need these rests?

Also, it has me fly sparging the grains, I have only batch sparked and thought I would do the same since I get pretty good efficiency from my batch sparge. Will this mess me up in any way?

Lastly, the recipe has me whirlpooling for 30 minutes then drawing off 2 quarts for Speise. Then they want me to cool the wort. I thought the you are always supposed to cool the wort ASAP after the boil? Can you tell me why this recipe calls for a 30 minute whirlpool instead of cooling down ASAP. It does mention this will collect protein rich trub in the center... Is that the reason?

I know there are a lot of questions in this thread... I appreciate the help.

I agree it you...those lower temp rests are unnecessary. The type if sparge you do depends on what you want to do, not the recipe.

I personally wouldn't bother with a stepped mash. It really was only needed when malts were more likely to be undermodified.

Denny said:

I agree it you...those lower temp rests are unnecessary. The type if sparge you do depends on what you want to do, not the recipe.

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Thank you for your help... Any input I to the 30 minute whirlpool instead of cooling down ASAP

I'm not an expert here, but for a beer with a lot of wheat you are going to need at least the protein rest. The acid rest I'm not sure of. That's also why they have you whirlpool, the wheat will put a lot of extra protein in that you'll want to coagulate.

As for the batch vs. fly sparge, both work, just fly (can) achieve better efficiency if you're setup for it and use it correctly. It's not worth it for a new homebrewer IMHO (and I'm an engineer who does things the hard way simply because they're technical and neat).

johngaltsmotor said:

I'm not an expert here, but for a beer with a lot of wheat you are going to need at least the protein rest. The acid rest I'm not sure of. That's also why they have you whirlpool, the wheat will put a lot of extra protein in that you'll want to coagulate.

As for the batch vs. fly sparge, both work, just fly (can) achieve better efficiency if you're setup for it and use it correctly. It's not worth it for a new homebrewer IMHO (and I'm an engineer who does things the hard way simply because they're technical and neat).

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A wheat beer doesn't have to have a protein rest.

Fredderick said:

Thank you for your help... Any input I to the 30 minute whirlpool instead of cooling down ASAP

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If I was guessing, I'd just say that it is the recipe author's preference based on the way he likes to brew. I think you could do it either way.

johngaltsmotor said:

I'm not an expert here, but for a beer with a lot of wheat you are going to need at least the protein rest. The acid rest I'm not sure of. That's also why they have you whirlpool, the wheat will put a lot of extra protein in that you'll want to coagulate.

As for the batch vs. fly sparge, both work, just fly (can) achieve better efficiency if you're setup for it and use it correctly. It's not worth it for a new homebrewer IMHO (and I'm an engineer who does things the hard way simply because they're technical and neat).

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What is the point of rapid cooling of the wort vs. the whirlpool?

Again I am semi-new to this... Just curious what both methods achieve

I do stepped mashes typically for adjunct lager, that I use a lot of six row in, and it does have an impact. I also do stepped mashes for my bavarian Hefes, but absolutely unnecessary, but I do it any way. Personally I feel that it helps precipitate proteins out, with high protein grains. However, protein haze is only a visual defect, and with a hefe....I doubt you would notice.

I'm not 100% certain about this, but the 99 degree rest might be a ferulic acid rest - though I though it was higher (110ish). It had been shown that this rest will result in more clove flavor/aroma when using a hefe yeast.

JLem said:

I'm not 100% certain about this, but the 99 degree rest might be a ferulic acid rest - though I though it was higher (110ish). It had been shown that this rest will result in more clove flavor/aroma when using a hefe yeast.

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Interesting... This would be a Schneider Weiss clone... Very well could be what it's for

The whirlpooling to get things into the center of brew pot vs. rapid cooling. Depends on how you transfer your wort to your fermenter too. It wouldn't make sense to whirlpool if you're going to just be dumping your wort into fermenter. But if you're going to transfer via tubing or siphon, etc. whirlpooling helps. I agree with Denny. What ever recipe it is, you just kind of got to do what you and your equipment can do. That's the beauty of homebrewing I think. Your own spin on things.