Letting unboiled wort sit

I have a question for you guys/girls: if after my mash and sparge I let the wort sit in a carboy over night, would I run into any problems?

Some days there just isn't enough time to pack in 4-5 hours of brewing. I have heard of overnight mashes, and my idea seems close. How would this affect the wort? I'm not worried about infection as I would boil in the morning. But what would happen to the wort in terms of body? Would the alpha amylase take away from the body? I don't mash out and my batch sparge hits about 160 for 15 min. I figured that for that long at lower temps the alpha would create smaller chains which would reduce my body and be detrimental.

Anyway I hope I was clear with my question/concerns.

I personally wouldn't do it as it leaves far too much room for infections to get a foothold. Yes, boiling will kill the bacteria but you could still get enough growth over night to result in some flavors being imparted (guessing as I have never tried this...but some bugs like enterobacter grow fast). If you still want to do it, I would consider doing a mash out as it will denature the enzymes avoiding the issue you discussed and will also get things hot enough to kill off the bugs that exist naturally in your grain.

I do regularly let boiled wort sit overnight to get down to lager temps before pitching without issue. This though means that the wort has been sterilized and has hops helping keep bugs at bay. Perhaps not a solution for your timeline...just a thought.

Bensiff said:

I personally wouldn't do it as it leaves far too much room for infections to get a foothold. Yes, boiling will kill the bacteria but you could still get enough growth over night to result in some flavors being imparted (guessing as I have never tried this...but some bugs like enterobacter grow fast). If you still want to do it, I would consider doing a mash out as it will denature the enzymes avoiding the issue you discussed and will also get things hot enough to kill off the bugs that exist naturally in your grain.

I do regularly let boiled wort sit overnight to get down to lager temps before pitching without issue. This though means that the wort has been sterilized and has hops helping keep bugs at bay. Perhaps not a solution for your timeline...just a thought.

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That was a concern too. Another reason I haven't tried it. I also no chill and haven't had a problem. It helps cut down time for sure.

Guess ill just keep doing without the mash idea. Thanks!

Mojzis said:

That was a concern too. Another reason I haven't tried it. I also no chill and haven't had a problem. It helps cut down time for sure.

Guess ill just keep doing without the mash idea. Thanks!

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Ah, if you don't have a wort chiller I would invest in one, an immersion chiller is pretty inexpensive and will save a ton of time...enough so that it might fix your time issue altogether. Where I live my groundwater isn't cold enough to get my wort down to lager temps without using another IC chiller sitting in an ice bath and that is more work than it is worth, so I get it down into the 60's, put it in a carboy and then toss it in the fridge to cool to 50.

cold unfermented wort is the most the most vulnerable to infection. The key is to be in this stage for as little time as possible. then again if it's pre boil I imagine any infection that takes foot will die in the boil. I'd still use careful sanitation practice to be on the safe side

Will you be mashing out? (above 170F) if not the analyses enzymes will still be in your wort, a long time spent between 150-140F will make your wort highly fermentable with less body as well

hey, i just had that exact same situation happen. mashed, and put it into a ale pail for a couple days (i swear i was going to get back to it) well i guess i didnt sanitize properly, and by the time i did get to it (almost 4 days later) it had been infected, and infected to the point that it was nasty. so you can leave it, just remember to sanitize the carboy really well. i did no chill for a while, and never had a problem there.

If I wanted to hold my wort over and boil it the following day, I would finish the mash and sparge, and heat it in the kettle to say 200 degrees so the enzymes and "bugs" from the mash are not such an issue. I would just leave it in the kettle and continue the following day. As said above, fresh wort still has active enzymes that will affect your wort, as well as critters from the mash...applying some heat prior to overnight storage should help in this regard.

If I prep my recipe, weigh my grains and hops and get my stuff out of the closet the night before, I can do an all grain in 3 to 3.5 hours. Cleaned up. I am not rushing, and do not do anything unusual. You may just find that your efficiency and speed gets better with experience. I think if you regularly leave the wort/mash overnight, you will wind up with inconsistant results. There is nothing worse than making a great beer and not being able to replicate it.

Luck!

I realize it isnt quite what you are asking but thought I would post.

A Japanese brewery had started their mash when the earthquake/tsunami hit, causing them to lose power. The batch sat in the mash tun on an angle due to damage from the earthquake. It had to just sit there for 3 days until they could get power to the pumps and finish the brewing process. Natural fermentation had already started. They finished the batch anyway and bottled it under the name 3days.

I picked up three bottles of it over the summer, planning to taste one and trade the other two...unfortunately, it was amazing and I am definately drinking the other 2 bottles myself.

Honestly, I may try to recreate it at some point.

I've done mash and sparge one day and boil the next with no problems. I've done a few batches like this and they all came out fine.

Never did this but i have some microbiology expirience and 150f should kill most of the bugs so infection shouldnt be a problem. I would mash out to make sure u dont convert any more but then im sure u can leave hot wort overnight with no problem

Mojzis said:

I have a question for you guys/girls: if after my mash and sparge I let the wort sit in a carboy over night, would I run into any problems?

Some days there just isn't enough time to pack in 4-5 hours of brewing. I have heard of overnight mashes, and my idea seems close. How would this affect the wort? I'm not worried about infection as I would boil in the morning. But what would happen to the wort in terms of body? Would the alpha amylase take away from the body? I don't mash out and my batch sparge hits about 160 for 15 min. I figured that for that long at lower temps the alpha would create smaller chains which would reduce my body and be detrimental.

Anyway I hope I was clear with my question/concerns.

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I wouldn't do it, but it shouldn't be a huge problem. There are many who swear by mashing overnight to keep the brew days shorter.

It definitely can't hurt to try, so just go for it! You said you don't mash out, though it's probably a good idea to do so if you plan to leave it overnight. It will halt the enzymes when you want it to, and can even somewhat "pasteurize" it, which are really the two main concerns with something like this. A higher than normal mash out temp will probably be helpful for the same reasons.

NewBrewB said:

I realize it isnt quite what you are asking but thought I would post.

A Japanese brewery had started their mash when the earthquake/tsunami hit, causing them to lose power. The batch sat in the mash tun on an angle due to damage from the earthquake. It had to just sit there for 3 days until they could get power to the pumps and finish the brewing process. Natural fermentation had already started. They finished the batch anyway and bottled it under the name 3days.

I picked up three bottles of it over the summer, planning to taste one and trade the other two...unfortunately, it was amazing and I am definately drinking the other 2 bottles myself.

Honestly, I may try to recreate it at some point.

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Hitachino Nest 3 Days, great beer. Loved it! Don't trade it!

Thanks for your advice guys. I don't think I'll try it just yet, but its good to know I can if I had to. You all re confirmed my fears of not boiling, and rightly so! If I ever do it ill mash out or heat the pot to 200 and leave it to make sure. My sanitation is strict as I no chill often, so that should be fine. I was more worried about the body if the beer, but a quick heat to 200 or so should fix that.

I should work on preparing for my brew days to make them shorter, but they usually come out of the blue. I've been avoiding the wort chillers, I'm running out of space in my apartment! I try to make it with the least equipment possible, but I tend to collect also.

And that Japanese beer sounds good

Sean said:

If I prep my recipe, weigh my grains and hops and get my stuff out of the closet the night before, I can do an all grain in 3 to 3.5 hours. Cleaned up. I am not rushing, and do not do anything unusual. You may just find that your efficiency and speed gets better with experience. I think if you regularly leave the wort/mash overnight, you will wind up with inconsistant results. There is nothing worse than making a great beer and not being able to replicate it.

Luck!

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+1. I started to get my grains weighed and crushed the night before as well as take my hops out And separate them because I buy in bulk. Then I even get my burner out, pot on the burner and fill it with my water. That way, I'm pretty ready to go the next day and these simple steps are already done.

NewBrewB said:

I realize it isnt quite what you are asking but thought I would post.

A Japanese brewery had started their mash when the earthquake/tsunami hit, causing them to lose power. The batch sat in the mash tun on an angle due to damage from the earthquake. It had to just sit there for 3 days until they could get power to the pumps and finish the brewing process. Natural fermentation had already started. They finished the batch anyway and bottled it under the name 3days.

I picked up three bottles of it over the summer, planning to taste one and trade the other two...unfortunately, it was amazing and I am definately drinking the other 2 bottles myself.

Honestly, I may try to recreate it at some point.

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New brew, that's sounds like a great story. Was the beer sour or was it noticeable different than what the style should have been? Maybe you're on to something?

Well, I must admit I don't have a way to obtain the "normal" beer for comparison. It was more on the sweet side and, to my less experienced palette, seemed to be a bit maris otter-ish.

I'm not one of those BA 1000 reviews guys but maybe I can get my buddy to write something up. I just dont have the vocabulary.

dkm11b said:

hey, i just had that exact same situation happen. mashed, and put it into a ale pail for a couple days (i swear i was going to get back to it) well i guess i didnt sanitize properly, and by the time i did get to it (almost 4 days later) it had been infected, and infected to the point that it was nasty. so you can leave it, just remember to sanitize the carboy really well. i did no chill for a while, and never had a problem there.

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I hope you boiled and finished it out. I would love to hear what resulted. I've been working with sour mashes a bit lately and always interested in what other people discover.

NewBrewB said:

I realize it isnt quite what you are asking but thought I would post.

A Japanese brewery had started their mash when the earthquake/tsunami hit, causing them to lose power. The batch sat in the mash tun on an angle due to damage from the earthquake. It had to just sit there for 3 days until they could get power to the pumps and finish the brewing process. Natural fermentation had already started. They finished the batch anyway and bottled it under the name 3days.

I picked up three bottles of it over the summer, planning to taste one and trade the other two...unfortunately, it was amazing and I am definately drinking the other 2 bottles myself.

Honestly, I may try to recreate it at some point.

Click to expand...

That's just an unintentional sour mash. Read up on that technique for making Berlinner Weisse. I haven't done it yet, but it doesn't look that tough. Basically, you get a lacto fermentation for a bit, but it's all killed off in the boil. So you'll get tart flavor without Brett funk in the finished product.

I usually collect all my wort on a Friday night and boil it on Saturday morning. Never had a problem.

I always started my boil 10 am.

I've got dozens of batches under my belt, and after each one I've said to myself, "Next batch I'm going to get it together and make myself an immersion chiller." It still hasn't happened.

I switched to all-grain for my third batch and I haven't looked back, mostly because it's worked out so swimmingly even with my limited equipment--no chiller, no mash tun, no fifteen gallon cooler, just a big pot, a grain bag and me. It takes about three hours of exhausting work and fifteen hours of ambient chilling for me to make a five-gallon batch, and they all taste great and I've never had one problem with infection. Certainly such a thing is possible, and it probably depends on your local microbiotic flora, but I think that a lot of the brewing dogmas are more superstition than anything else.

And yes, I know that I'm extremely lucky to never have a contamination and that it'll probably happen eventually, but I think experimentation can tell you a lot more about what works for you than received wisdom. A lot of people I know swear by the partial-boil-plus-ice chilling method, but the only time I've ever had issues with nightmarish boil-over happened the one time I tried it.

If ambient chilling works for you, go with it. It certainly works fine for me.

I'm pretty sure this thread is about letting sweet wort sit overnight or longer before boiling--not about ambient chilling after the boil.

NewBrewB said:

I'm pretty sure this thread is about letting sweet wort sit overnight or longer before boiling--not about ambient chilling after the boil.

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Yeah, I realized that after posting. The same concerns hold, though. As long as you hit a high enough mash-out temp, you shouldn't have to worry about the mash continuing overnight, and if ambient chilling doesn't lead to infection, neither should letting the wort sit overnight. I'm not sure what the difference between a boiled wort and a not-quite-boiled wort would be sitting for a few hours.

techbrewie said:

then again if it's pre boil I imagine any infection that takes foot will die in the boil.

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the problem is that many infections leave behind by-products that aren't removed by the boil. lacto, acetobacter and other bacteria can do damage overnight - the bugs will die during the boil but things like acetic acid will stick around. it's not guaranteed to happen, but personally i wouldn't leave warm wort in a carboy. at a minimum i'd get it up to boil and then put it in a sanitized container that i can squeeze the air out of (aka no-chill).

NewBrewB said:

I realize it isnt quite what you are asking but thought I would post.

A Japanese brewery had started their mash when the earthquake/tsunami hit, causing them to lose power. The batch sat in the mash tun on an angle due to damage from the earthquake. It had to just sit there for 3 days until they could get power to the pumps and finish the brewing process. Natural fermentation had already started. They finished the batch anyway and bottled it under the name 3days.

I picked up three bottles of it over the summer, planning to taste one and trade the other two...unfortunately, it was amazing and I am definately drinking the other 2 bottles myself.

Honestly, I may try to recreate it at some point.

Click to expand...

Finding an earthquake and tsunami to brew during is one thing, but getting a suitable radiological disaster is going to be the hard part.

Awkward. haha