Exploring "no chill" brewing

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I think, offhand, that the only problem would be oxidizing the wort while in the pot. When you put it in a Winpak, e.g., it contracts as it cools and forces all of the oxygen out. Whether it makes a big difference for home brewers is the question.

Do you whirlpool when it is cold or? How do you handle the removal of hot break?

I whhirlpool, then spigot the almost boiling wort through a tube into the bottom of the Winpak. CO2 is put in the Winpak as well to force the oxygen layer above the beer so there is no direct contact between the two. Tin foil covers the opening keeping dust, bacteria and wild yeast out. The Winpak is also sanitized with StarSan prior to being filled. So hot break is removed, oxygen doesn't stay with the wort all night, and nasties are kept out.

Just one way to do it.
 
I whirlpool at flameout for only a few seconds. Honestly, letting it sit for 24 hours pretty much clears the wort on its own. The whilrpool does encourage a hop cone at the center of the pot. While I try to keep the big chunks of protein and hop material out of the fermenter, I've stopped worrying about the gauzy white floaty stuff. That all goes away after 2 weeks in primary anyway.

I've not had an issue with oxidation; I think that is because the wort is sitting still and untouched. If you splash and bubble it, sure it could happen, but I haven't seen it in mine.
 
Just wanted to put out my method of no-chill in a 5 gal Glass carboy, half way through my boil, I take out 1.5 gal of wort, set aside to cool, add this cooler 1.5gal to carboy. then at end of boil add rest of my hot wort to carboy. 1.5 gal of cool liquid is enough heat mass to absorb the the heat shock. This method does two things, 1st the total wort volume drops temperature quickly, I am able to see a minor cold break. 2nd the hot wort sterilizes my carboy a second time. This method will work everytime and you will never get a broken carboy.
 
tbeard said:
This method does two things, 1st the total wort volume drops temperature quickly, I am able to see a minor cold break. 2nd the hot wort sterilizes my carboy a second time.
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this statement seems contradictory. If you're lowering the temp quickly (and saving yourself an exploding carboy), then the temp of your wort isn't hot enough to sanitize (not to mention sterilize) the carboy. If this method works for you, I think you might have been lucky.

For others, you should know that this process is highly unlikely to sanitize the carboy for you. Tbeard seems to sanitize the carboy prior to this, reducing bacteria, etc, which is why it works, but the wort won't do this for you unless it's in the 160* range and in contact for a few minutes (if higher temps, less contact time required). Just my input; i might be mistaken here.
 
I'd be less worried about sterilizing the carboy and more worried about it shattering. I'm not a big fan of glass and temperature shock.
 
Glass and no chill arent friends...

Glass and heat are bad...

I think I am actually going to start fermenting in Cornies... I have plenty of them, I can modify them as fermentors with blow offs. Actually read an article today about using the Burton blow off method to rid the fermenting beer of undesireable compounds that exist in the krausen by using this method.

5 gallon cornies are the perfect size as you want the vessel to be the same size as your final target volume so that you vent and remove most of the krausen. This removes proteins, tannins, grain husks, hops and other undesirable materials that tend to form at the top of the fermenter during the early stages of active fermentation.
 
Google it, I found one pretty quickly last night. I would think that you'd lose half a gallon or so of volume if you had a pretty violent fermentation.
 
wyzazz said:
Google it, I found one pretty quickly last night. I would think that you'd lose half a gallon or so of volume if you had a pretty violent fermentation.
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Yes, and that is the point...:D
 
The Pol said:
Yes, and that is the point...:D
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Then again, I guess all that stuff would just settle out normally and you'd be left with less beer anyway. You wouldn't lose as much the "traditional" way but I guess that just means you have to brew more! :rockin:
 
wyzazz said:
Then again, I guess all that stuff would just settle out normally and you'd be left with less beer anyway. You wouldn't lose as much the "traditional" way but I guess that just means you have to brew more! :rockin:
Click to expand...

The byproducts, some of them, that the Burton method removes from the beer, dont settle out. Some of that stuff remains apparently and changes the properties of the brew. I dunno, worth checking out!
 
The Pol said:
The byproducts, some of them, that the Burton method removes from the beer, dont settle out. Some of that stuff remains apparently and changes the properties of the brew. I dunno, worth checking out!
Click to expand...

Pol - I am starting to lean towards your way of thinking on this one, but more for the sake of efficiency.

I found out with my first no chill a corny will actually hold about 5 1/4 or so gallons if you fill it right up to the top. My thought is to brew and do the no-chilling in a corny keg (like I have been). Take the gas post off and ferment in the same keg, then do a keg to keg transfer when it's all done, throwing the first cup or so out.

Should net you about 4 3/4 or so gallons in the finished keg is my best guess.
 
I was looking through my worn copy of the Joy of Homebrewing and in the all grain section, before starting with the littany of recipies, Papazzian actually does suggest that you can add hot wort to a 'sufficiently heated' carboy and then let that cool to room temp. He also notes that brewers may leave the wort to cool for many hours before pitching if other forms of cooling aren't available.

I dont think its a good idea to mix glass, heat and boiling wort. But, apparently people have been kicking these alternatives around for a long time.
 
I recently purchased some Sanke Keg Fermenter kits, and a couple used Sanke kegs from the scrapyard. For my next brew, I was thinking how wonderful it would be to not worry one bit about cooling the wort. I could just transfer the boiling wort into the sanke keg, and clamp on the dip tube assembly. The only worry I have is that as the wort cools, air could be sucked into the keg thorugh the airlock port. Not sure what I'd use to cap this off, but it seems like whenever I un-capped it, the air would rush in and possibly inject airborne wild yeast/bacteria into the wort. Any ideas?

For reference, this is the setup I'll be using:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/sanke-fermenter-conversion-128262/

sanke%20preview.jpg
 
Just to clear up any confusion, My hot wort method does not sanitize the carboy, that must be done before any wort is added, my method is just another precaution against airborne yeasts and bacteria, as the hot wort in the carboy is generally too hot for wild yeasts and bacterias to thrive.
 
TwoHeadsBrewing said:
I recently purchased some Sanke Keg Fermenter kits, and a couple used Sanke kegs from the scrapyard. For my next brew, I was thinking how wonderful it would be to not worry one bit about cooling the wort. I could just transfer the boiling wort into the sanke keg, and clamp on the dip tube assembly. The only worry I have is that as the wort cools, air could be sucked into the keg thorugh the airlock port. Not sure what I'd use to cap this off, but it seems like whenever I un-capped it, the air would rush in and possibly inject airborne wild yeast/bacteria into the wort. Any ideas?

For reference, this is the setup I'll be using:
QUOTE]

Wrap aluminum foil around the ports or use a cotton ball held on by foil.
Click to expand...
 
TwoHeadsBrewing said:
I recently purchased some Sanke Keg Fermenter kits, and a couple used Sanke kegs from the scrapyard. For my next brew, I was thinking how wonderful it would be to not worry one bit about cooling the wort. I could just transfer the boiling wort into the sanke keg, and clamp on the dip tube assembly. The only worry I have is that as the wort cools, air could be sucked into the keg thorugh the airlock port. Not sure what I'd use to cap this off, but it seems like whenever I un-capped it, the air would rush in and possibly inject airborne wild yeast/bacteria into the wort. Any ideas?

For reference, this is the setup I'll be using:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/sanke-fermenter-conversion-128262/

sanke%20preview.jpg
Click to expand...

How about some paper towel or cotton gauze, soaked in Star San and sprayed occasionally to keep moist?
 
TwoHeadsBrewing said:
...The only worry I have is that as the wort cools, air could be sucked into the keg thorugh the airlock port. Not sure what I'd use to cap this off, but it seems like whenever I un-capped it, the air would rush in and possibly inject airborne wild yeast/bacteria into the wort. Any ideas?...
Click to expand...


Two thoughts come to mind:
1) could you rig up a connection to your CO2 tank (if you force carb)
2) use an inline sterile filter with one of these disposable filters on your vent in line:
http://www.google.com/products?q=st...esult_group&ct=title&resnum=3&ved=0CC8QrQQwAg

Used in medicine/surgery - you don't need the ones use to sterilize fluids but the cheaper ones that are used for drawing up sterile air.
 
ipscman said:
I think, offhand, that the only problem would be oxidizing the wort while in the pot. When you put it in a Winpak, e.g., it contracts as it cools and forces all of the oxygen out. Whether it makes a big difference for home brewers is the question.

Do you whirlpool when it is cold or? How do you handle the removal of hot break?
Click to expand...

I haven't had any noticeable oxidation. Air clearly enters since the wort is cooling (and therefore contracting) so air from outside flows in through the top of the lid. However, I doubt that this small amount can really change much. At least for me I cannot tell.

I do a little whirlpool when it is hot, then just use an Auto Siphon about 18 hours later. Nearly all of the hot break is settled out and I just siphon off the top. Hop debris and whatnot left in the pot.

The Pol said:
I think I am actually going to start fermenting in Cornies...[/I][/B]
Click to expand...

I think you should do it. That way I can say that The Pol started using one of his methods AFTER I did.

But seriously. I love fermenting in a corny. There is a handle so they're easy to move around. They're completely shielded from light. You can transfer under pressure (and even pressure ferment). They take up a smaller floor space and therefore more fit in my brewing closet. You can clean them with practically anything. If you want to you can keep your beer in the same vessel from brew day until consumption. They're nearly impossible to 'break'. And the list goes on...

I am personally using a defoaming agent much like Ferm Cap S and I am doing 4.5 gallon batches. No problems at all here. Although mimicking a Burton style fermenter with a blow off would be interesting. I have my next 2 brews already planned, but when I do another Mild I'll use a blow off and compare it to my past Milds...
 
TwoHeadsBrewing said:
I recently purchased some Sanke Keg Fermenter kits, and a couple used Sanke kegs from the scrapyard. For my next brew, I was thinking how wonderful it would be to not worry one bit about cooling the wort. I could just transfer the boiling wort into the sanke keg, and clamp on the dip tube assembly. The only worry I have is that as the wort cools, air could be sucked into the keg thorugh the airlock port. Not sure what I'd use to cap this off, but it seems like whenever I un-capped it, the air would rush in and possibly inject airborne wild yeast/bacteria into the wort. Any ideas?
Click to expand...

For how cheap couplers are I would put the dip tube back in, use a standard sankey coupler to put 5-10 psi on the keg, and then let it sit til cool...pull the dip tube out, aerate, pitch, ferment, etc. etc. etc.
 
Question for the no chill veterans -- Have you seen any loss in hop complexity by doing the no chill modification on your recipes that have a LOT of hop additions? I am about to brew one that has additions from mash through dry hop and I am afraid that I will lose something by turning that into just a couple additions based on the guide.
 
Jonnio said:
Question for the no chill veterans -- Have you seen any loss in hop complexity by doing the no chill modification on your recipes that have a LOT of hop additions?
Click to expand...

No,not really, but I've never made too many "hop-stupid" imperial-double IPA's. My "normal" IPA's always come out tasty doing no chill,even with just FWH, 60 minute, cube and dry hop.
 
Update. I brewed up 12 gallons of Czech pilsner, no-chill. I used 24 lbs of Dingeman's continental pilsner malt and some carapils. 6g is stuck at 1.030 (that's my own damned fault). The other attenuated fully, perfectly clear (before lagering), no DMS, no diacetyl. I'll update if anything changes when I chill.
 
noisy123 said:
Update. I brewed up 12 gallons of Czech pilsner, no-chill. I used 24 lbs of Dingeman's continental pilsner malt and some carapils. 6g is stuck at 1.030 (that's my own damned fault). The other attenuated fully, perfectly clear (before lagering), no DMS, no diacetyl. I'll update if anything changes when I chill.
Click to expand...

Glad to hear... awesome
 
bakins said:
No,not really, but I've never made too many "hop-stupid" imperial-double IPA's. My "normal" IPA's always come out tasty doing no chill,even with just FWH, 60 minute, cube and dry hop.
Click to expand...

Yeah, this is a pretty crazy amount of hops (14 oz or so) -- I think I might do this one brew old school and return to no chill for my regular beers.
 
Jonnio said:
Yeah, this is a pretty crazy amount of hops (14 oz or so) -- I think I might do this one brew old school and return to no chill for my regular beers.
Click to expand...

I guess it depends on when you add it. 4 ounces in the cube has been no problem for me (hop-burst IPA).

I actually formulate all my recipes with no-chill in mind.Pretty much all my "American" style beers have the same schedule - different varieties and amounts: 60 min (== 80 min), cube (==20 min), and dry.

I brew 10 gallon batches and often do 2 slightly different beers by adding different hops in cube and dry and sometimes different yeast. I actually did a belgian "blonde" and "dubbel" the same way. I always add my sugars about a week into fermentation, so I used only white in one and dark candi in the other with 2 different yeasts. turned out nice! An APA and an IPA from same boil turned out real well, also. Also 2 Ambers, one with all citrusy late hops w/ clean yeast, and another all earthy/spicy with English yeast.

1 mash, 1 boil, 2 related, but slightly different beers.
 
bakins said:
I guess it depends on when you add it. 4 ounces in the cube has been no problem for me (hop-burst IPA).

I actually formulate all my recipes with no-chill in mind.Pretty much all my "American" style beers have the same schedule - different varieties and amounts: 60 min (== 80 min), cube (==20 min), and dry.

I brew 10 gallon batches and often do 2 slightly different beers by adding different hops in cube and dry and sometimes different yeast. I actually did a belgian "blonde" and "dubbel" the same way. I always add my sugars about a week into fermentation, so I used only white in one and dark candi in the other with 2 different yeasts. turned out nice! An APA and an IPA from same boil turned out real well, also. Also 2 Ambers, one with all citrusy late hops w/ clean yeast, and another all earthy/spicy with English yeast.

1 mash, 1 boil, 2 related, but slightly different beers.
Click to expand...

That's a good idea too -- I may have to start doing that with some of my IPA recipes... I will get the hop schedule for the original beer sometime today and post it to see what you guys think -- well, or if you have seen the AHS Pliny the Elder clone, that's the recipe "in question" so to speak.
 
Can you produce beer that is clear w/ no chill brewing? Doesn't crash cooling drop the protiens out of suspension or am I getting this mixed up? I would like to not get an immersion chiller but I like my beers to be clear for the most part (looks more appetizing to me). Irish moss w/ no chill = clear?
 
The short answer is yes. But I think that to do so, you need good (maybe even excellent) processes and ingredients. Some of my no-chills have been clear, others haven't. I haven't quite figured out why, but that doesn't trouble me. N_G

Edit: I should point out that none have been cloudy to the point where you wonder what the heck happened... they just are a bit hazy.
 
aliu630 said:
Can you produce beer that is clear w/ no chill brewing? Doesn't crash cooling drop the protiens out of suspension or am I getting this mixed up? I would like to not get an immersion chiller but I like my beers to be clear for the most part (looks more appetizing to me). Irish moss w/ no chill = clear?
Click to expand...

I see no difference in chill/no chill beer clarity... step away from the 80's brewing paperbacks :D
 
Anybody aware of a container that could be used for no chill that is around the 3 gallon size? I searched on the US Plastic site and didn't see any. I like to try some weird beers and usually do them in small batches. I'd like to try them no chill but I need a suitable container. I've got the winpaks for my regular batches.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Ron
 
The Pol said:
I see no difference in chill/no chill beer clarity... step away from the 80's brewing paperbacks :D
Click to expand...

After seeing pnj link the picture of your beer, I'm sold on no chill :mug:. I probably mix up all the information that I read on here because there's so much, but I got the impression that a lot of people use immersion chillers on here to clear out their beers. Is there another reason why ICs are used? DMS? But I guess it was covered w/ a 90min boil? It's nice to see people try out different things and prove that there's more than one way to do things :)
 
aliu630 said:
After seeing pnj link the picture of your beer, I'm sold on no chill :mug:. I probably mix up all the information that I read on here because there's so much, but I got the impression that a lot of people use immersion chillers on here to clear out their beers. Is there another reason why ICs are used? DMS? But I guess it was covered w/ a 90min boil? It's nice to see people try out different things and prove that there's more than one way to do things :)
Click to expand...

Well, a lot of people prefer to do what they have been told, that is cool... no problem with that. You do have to adjust your hop additions slightly if you NO CHILL... um, and every book you read sayes you MUST chill quickly.

Different strokes, different folks!
 

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