I'm confused about late addition

So, in all my reading here, I'm still confused about something.

Is it better to boil your hops in straight water for the alotted time, then add ALL the extract at knockout? Or...

Should you do 1/3 at the beginning of the boil and 2/3 at knockout? Or 1/2 and 1/2?

I've seen so many different opinions, and I'm trying to figure out the general concensus.

Late additions may make for lighter beer because there's less time to carmelize the sugars.

I think most people would say it really doesn't matter that much. But people get into some pretty heavy fine tuning.

I think I'd err on the side of having it in longer to make sure it's all mixed in evenly before it hits your fermenter.

Charlie Pap. swears by boiling it for the full amount in his book, but I don't remember why.

Unfortunately, you wont get a general consensus on this topic. I saw a Basic Brewing episode where they tested two identical beers, with the only difference being the extract was added for 60 mins in one and in the other the extract was added with 15 mins left.

The result in a blind taste test, was the beer with the extract added late resulted in a more balanced, more bitter beer. The beer with the extract boiled for 60 minutes was good, but they both preferred the one with the late extract addition.

Their findings seem to indicate that adding extract early is not necessary for good hop utilization. In fact, they were saying it was more bitter when they boiled in just water.

I haven't done an extract only batch where I boiled it for 60 minutes.

I have no data or supporting information, but I thought hops utilization suffered in plain water. That's why the "happy medium" between carmelized wort and low IBUs was to add a little (10-30%) when the first hops go in and the rest late (15 minutes to flameout).

Again, I have absolutely no supporting details. Maybe this is just one of those practices that was thrown out there (someone at sometime knew why or THOUGHT they knew why) and the theory has been debunked but still lingers...

No idea.

Hold on... time out...

There are brewers who make a wort, either by extract or all-grain, and then, in a separate pot, just boil the hops in plain water and then combine the two??

When I first read the OP I thought it was a question around why you would add hops at different times in the boil and that all has to fo with bitterness vs aroma but now that I'm reading it, that doesn't seem the case.

Why would anyone boil the hops separately???

Cape Brewing said:

Hold on... time out...

There are brewers who make a wort, either by extract or all-grain, and then, in a separate pot, just boil the hops in plain water and then combine the two??

When I first read the OP I thought it was a question around why you would add hops at different times in the boil and that all has to fo with bitterness vs aroma but now that I'm reading it, that doesn't seem the case.

Why would anyone boil the hops separately???

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The op is asking when to add the extract, not to boil the hops separate. When I did extract I did half and half, no particular reason. My beers turned out fine but if it's a really light beer maybe you would want to do a different amount like 1/4 and 3/4? But don't quote me on that last one.

bchurch said:

The op is asking when to add the extract, not to boil the hops separate. When I did extract I did half and half, no particular reason. My beers turned out fine but if it's a really light beer maybe you would want to do a different amount like 1/4 and 3/4? But don't quote me on that last one.

Click to expand...

Ahhhhhh... got it...

Hmmm... I didn't realize anyone did "late additions" of extract either. When I was doing extract batches I would do full boils with all of the extract as, I thought, you were still driving off DMS, etc. with the full 60 minute boils on the wort itself. Could easily be wrong there as I'm certainly not an extract expert.

Again, I have no supporting information, but I was under the impression that it was more critical for partial boils because the wort was more concentrated. Full boils are less likely to have extensive Maillard reactions.

Well, the reason I ask this. Is because my Belgian white looks like OJ.

It tastes great, but it doesn't have that delicate pale yellow color that Belgians are known for. I attributed this to the full boil of the LME.

What I meant with the plain water was this:

I've read that people steep their grains, then add the hops and boil for 60min or whatever time the recepe calls for. Then knockout the flame, then dump the lME in. Cover and let sit for 15 min before cooling the wort.

I dunno. I'm so damn confused.

I don't think with stouts or dark beers I would worry about it too much, but with light brews like Belgian wits and light lagers, I might start doing it this way.

Shrug. Beats me.

tackett said:

Well, the reason I ask this. Is because my Belgian white looks like OJ.

It tastes great, but it doesn't have that delicate pale yellow color that Belgians are known for. I attributed this to the full boil of the LME.

What I meant with the plain water was this:

I've read that people steep their grains, then add the hops and boil for 60min or whatever time the recepe calls for. Then knockout the flame, then dump the lME in. Cover and let sit for 15 min before cooling the wort.

I dunno. I'm so damn confused.

I don't think with stouts or dark beers I would worry about it too much, but with light brews like Belgian wits and light lagers, I might start doing it this way.

Shrug. Beats me.

Click to expand...

When I gave that info on using the grain wort for hop additions,that was partial mash where the mashed grains make up about 50% of the fermentables. When steeping,after the steep you get past the hot break,bring it to a boil,& add about 1.5lbs of extract to the partial boil. I prefer plain DME for this. I then add the remaining 1.5lbs of DME & all the LME at flame out,mix,cover,& steep that 15 minutes to pasteurize,since the wort is still 180F+ & pasteurization happens at 162F.

Ok. So I think I'll try that method with the heff I'm going to be making soon. Hopefully it won't come out so dark.

I'm brewing my heff right now. It has both LME and DME.

I put about a pound of the LME in while I boil the hops. I'm goin g to dump the rest of it in at flameout.

I know this thread is almost a month old, but I just ran across it. I was wondering about adding the extract at flameout and letting it steep for another 15 minutes. It seems like the extra steeping would degrade the flavor and aroma hops and reduce the flavor and aroma. Has anybody noticed whether this is an issue?

It's def not an issue with mine. Been doing it a while. It's hot enough during the steep to pasteurize,but not to boil hops any further ime.