Pumpkin beers: Discussion, developing recipes, tips tricks, and a good practices

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I think roasting is more to produce some complexity in the pumpkin, some roasted notes more that anythinng. I do a roasted vegetable soup that I stick all the veggies under the broiler first. It is 10 times more flavorful and complext than when a make a "normal" veggy soup.
 
JLem said:
Perhaps this one will work --> new link
Click to expand...

That's a good one. You're right, pumpkin falls right into the common sac rest temps. Here's a chart I got from somewhere that shows gelatination temp ranges for lots of stuff. Pumpkin is not in there though.

Gelatinization_Temps.jpg
 
Here's what I have planned in the very near future.

BeerSmith Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Pumpkin Ale
Brewer: Adam Cole
Asst Brewer:
Style: Spice, Herb, or Vegetable Beer
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 6.00 gal
Boil Size: 7.58 gal
Estimated OG: 1.071 SG
Estimated Color: 10.0 SRM
Estimated IBU: 19.1 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
9.00 lb Pale Malt (MO) (2 Row) UK (3.0 SRM) Grain 56.25 %
2.00 lb Munich Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 12.50 %
2.00 lb Pale Malt (6 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 12.50 %
1.00 lb Biscuit Malt (23.0 SRM) Grain 6.25 %
1.00 lb Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) (Toasted) Grain 6.25 %
1.00 lb Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM) Grain 6.25 %
1.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.90 %] (60 min) Hops 15.3 IBU
0.50 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.90 %] (15 min) Hops 3.8 IBU
0.25 tsp Nutmeg (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
0.50 tsp Ground Cinnamon (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
1.00 lb Rice Hulls (Mash 5.0 min) Misc
60.00 oz Pumpkin (Mash 5.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs Edinburgh Ale (White Labs #WLP028) Yeast-Ale


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body
Total Grain Weight: 16.00 lb
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Medium Body
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
60 min Mash In Add 20.00 qt of water at 165.9 F 154.0 F
10 min Mash Out Add 11.20 qt of water at 202.8 F 168.0 F
 
passedpawn said:
That's a good one. You're right, pumpkin falls right into the common sac rest temps. Here's a chart I got from somewhere that shows gelatination temp ranges for lots of stuff. Pumpkin is not in there though.
Click to expand...

Should a step mash be used for those starches with gelatinization ranges below the typical sac rest, e.g. rye, or will they gelatinize and convert just fine at the higher sac rest temp?
 
I would avoid ground cinnamon. It is fine enough that it doesn't easily drop out of suspension and leaves an unpleasant bitterness. I will only use cinnamon sticks from now on.
 
JLem said:
Should a step mash be used for those starches with gelatinization ranges below the typical sac rest, e.g. rye, or will they gelatinize and convert just fine at the higher sac rest temp?
Click to expand...

If you use whole-grain rye, you will need to do a cereal mash to gelatinize it (as you suggested above).

However, most brewers will choose flaked/rolled rye. During the rolling process, the rye is flattened under hot, heavy rollers. The heat and pressure from the rollers gelatinizes the rye starch, thus eliminating the need for precooking the rye: flaked rye does not require a step mash.

Be careful using rye, it is high in beta-glucans and produces a very sticky mash, similar to wheat. Create a thinner mash (more water), and have a contingency plan if the sparge clogs. If you are also mashing pumpkin, you are braver than I!
 
passedpawn said:
If you use whole-grain rye, you will need to do a cereal mash to gelatinize it (as you suggested above).

However, most brewers will choose flaked/rolled rye. During the rolling process, the rye is flattened under hot, heavy rollers. The heat and pressure from the rollers gelatinizes the rye starch, thus eliminating the need for precooking the rye: flaked rye does not require a step mash.

Be careful using rye, it is high in beta-glucans and produces a very sticky mash, similar to wheat. Create a thinner mash (more water), and have a contingency plan if the sparge clogs. If you are also mashing pumpkin, you are braver than I!
Click to expand...

I'm not mashing rye - though perhaps in the future. We're getting a bit off topic of pumpkin beer here, but...

My question was out of curiosity as to how to handle those starches that have gelatinization temps lower than normal sac rests. So, you are suggesting that the higher sac rest temp will not gelatinize rye starch? I thought the problem was normally that sac rest were not hot enough for some starches (e.g. rice). Confused. :confused:
 
Hmmm, I thought I answered your question (Will [rye] gelatinize and convert just fine at the higher sac rest temp?). You did ask about rye, and I addressed that.

Normal sac rest is too hot for rye. However, flaked rye has been "pre-gelatinized" and it's starches are available for enzymatic conversion. Use flaked rye with single infusion mashes.

Regarding other starches, if there is a flaked version, use it. If not, you'll need a step mash. I only do single infusion mashes, so I'm getting out of my element here.
 
passedpawn said:
Hmmm, I thought I answered your question (Will [rye] gelatinize and convert just fine at the higher sac rest temp?). You did ask about rye, and I addressed that.

Normal sac rest is too hot for rye. However, flaked rye has been "pre-gelatinized" and it's starches are available for enzymatic conversion. Use flaked rye with single infusion mashes.

Regarding other starches, if there is a flaked version, use it. If not, you'll need a step mash. I only do single infusion mashes, so I'm getting out of my element here.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the clarification. While, yes you did answer my original question, the answer did not jive with my apparently flawed understanding of the gelatinization process, so that was my way of saying "Are you sure?" - the skeptic in me...sorry. I did not realize that it was possible for temps to be too high for gelatinization to occur. I figured you needed to reach a certain minimum temp and anything above that was good. Any idea what happens at the higher temps to prevent gelatinization?
 
JLem said:
... so that was my way of saying "Are you sure?"...
Click to expand...

No, I'm not sure. But I'm pretty sure.

I regurgitate a lot of what I've learned on these here interwebs. I might have misunderstood good information I found, and I might be repeating bad information. As with everything else you read on this forum, or others, you will need to find multiple sources supporting an idea in order to have any confidence in its veracity. Wikipedia is a good place to start.

[edit] And, in fact, you have me wondering now. It's such an easy thing to test. If only I didn't have so many kids, wives, jobs...
 
passedpawn said:
[edit] And, in fact, you have me wondering now. It's such an easy thing to test. If only I didn't have so many kids, wives, jobs...
Click to expand...

I should point out that I have no sources to back me up in my thinking - just seemed logical to me and I had never heard of problems with too hot a temp. I know that this is argument from ignorance, but it's all I've got at the moment! I'm off to post the question in the Science forum

:off: sorry everyone for hijacking this thread a bit...
 
Has anyone had a hard time finding pumpkin for their beers this year? Several supermarkets in my area have told me they haven't had pumpkin for several months due to a pumpkin shortage or bad crop from last year. I looked on amazon and they do not have the large cans of Libby's Pumpkin either and they do not know when they will be back in stock.

I had to bite the bullet and get two 15oz cans of Organic Pumpkin from some farm in Oregon for 3.50 each. Argh!! This is the same kind they are selling on amazon in bulk for I believe 2.65 a can. Does anyone know a better place to buy pumpkin besides the local farm I wanna get some of my pumpkin beers rolling in the next few weeks and Im not sure if local pumpkins will be ready by mid August.
 
At here we have some pumpkins, but there´s not like the ones that you guys have in the USA. I´ve miscalculated the amount I was going to use in my recipe, so, right now, I´m baking the sweet potato and crushing the grains.
 
...22 effing pages later I've decided to make a pumpkin pie porter without the pumpkin. It seems like people who have used pumpkin say they liked it, but those that have gone without it have the same things to say. I am going to make a lighter version of the punkin porter recipe from extreme brewing by Sam Calagion without the pumpkin. The spices seem to make up the beer, hope it turns out well.
 
I am not sure if anyone ever chimed in about the effect of the decoction on the sparge ease....

DO IT!@!#*^&%$^#^%(@!!!!! Holy cow does it make a huge difference in the ease of sparging through that goop.

Decoct for sure.
 
I have ripe pumpkins now because I started them early; I wanted to have a long growing season to get them big. Anyway, I don't see much of a demand for pumpkins in summer hence I never see them in summer. If I were a pumpkin farmer I would time my crop for a fall harvest so I could actually sell my crop. So, if you want actual pumpkins for a summer brew for a fall beer you probably need to grow your own. I think that is also why you don't see cans in the store. Very few people buy pumpkin in the summer so they don't stock it. So in that case you need to plan ahead and buy in the fall and store if you want to assure a canned pumpkin supply in the summer.
 
Just wanted to say I ended up brewing this today. I just cooled and transferred the wort. I used three cinnamon sticks instead of ground and .25 tsp of allspice (not listed but last minute add. The nutmeg was fresh ground with a microplane. Right now it tastes fantastic. The pumpkin I used was the 15oz cans of organic stuff I got at the grocery store. I toasted the oats at 300* yesterday until they smelled sort of like cookies. If this tastes as good when it's finished as it does now I will have a hard time keeping out of this beer. Hmm I wonder what a little molasses could do for it...

Batch Size: 6.00 gal
Boil Size: 8.08 gal
Estimated OG: 1.084 SG
Estimated Color: 10.8 SRM
Estimated IBU: 17.0 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 80.00 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
9.00 lb Pale Malt (MO) (2 Row) UK (3.0 SRM) Grain 51.43 %
2.00 lb Munich Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 11.43 %
2.00 lb Pale Malt (6 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 11.43 %
1.50 lb Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 8.57 %
1.00 lb Biscuit Malt (23.0 SRM) Grain 5.71 %
1.00 lb Smoked Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 5.71 %
1.00 lb White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM) Grain 5.71 %
0.75 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.90 %] (90 min) Hops 11.6 IBU
0.75 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.90 %] (15 min) Hops 5.4 IBU
0.25 tsp Nutmeg (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
3 whole Cinnamon sticks (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
1.00 lb Rice Hulls (Mash 5.0 min) Misc
60.00 oz Pumpkin (Mash 5.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs Edinburgh Ale (White Labs #WLP028) Yeast-Ale


Mash Schedule: Double Infusion, Full Body
Total Grain Weight: 17.50 lb
----------------------------
Double Infusion, Full Body
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
30 min Protein Rest Add 15.75 qt of water at 132.1 F 122.0 F
60 min Saccrification Add 14.00 qt of water at 202.0 F 156.0 F
10 min Mash Out Add 10.50 qt of water at 205.6 F 168.0 F


Notes:
------
Toasted Oats....
 
Hi guys,

Was going to make a separate post but when I saw this post, why bother. I've got my very first beer one day in the fermenter and I'm already thinking of another. :cross: Hell is wrong with me?! But man, do I love pumpkin beer!

Is there a real simple but really good recipe for beginners? I look at ingredient lists and my head spins. I don't even know what these things mean yet. Thinking I should stick with a pumpkin ale kit this year being that I've obviously never started anything from scratch? This would only be my second time for goodness sake. But I am yearning to get a pumpkin beer going.

Is there a good kit out there that people can recommend after using? Unless you think a newbie can handle a recipe of course. I suppose I could just get the recipe and bring it to my local shop and have him put it all together for me. But I would certainly need help of what to do and when during the process. This would have to be an extract recipe though because I have no knowledge of any other way yet. And now is not the time to experiment. I'm just too new at this.

Thanks for any help!

**Update** I'm going to go with Midwest Supplies Pumpkin Ale kit unless someone has a better suggestion.
 
I just mashed two pumpkins from the backyard last night to see what type of conversion can be had. Taking two of my smaller pumpkins(youth soccerball size), we chopped them up into 1" cubes and mashed them for an hour at 155F with 2 quarts of water. Then I turned up the heat and boiled the whole thing for 90 minutes. The resulting 2 quarts of pumpkin wort clocked in at 1.014 gravity. It also has a very intense, buttery pumpkin smell to it.

The pumpkin wort will stay in the fridge until brew day on Friday. My plan is to incorporate the spices and vanilla into the pumpkin wort as I bring it to a boil and then transfer the whole thing into the main wort at the 15 minute mark. Just long enough to kill bad guys. Hopefully that will preserve most of the pumpkin flavor. I'll post the results.

Edit: The reason there was no water loss during the boil is because pumpkin soaks up water like mad and holds on to it like a sponge. Plus, boiling the shiznit out of pumpkin makes it give up whatever water it already had. Just dump all the pumpkin in a strainer bag after you finish the boil and ring all the wort out of it. Just be careful not to burn yourself. Boiled pumpkin is the napalm of the culinary world.
 
wheatgerm said:
I just mashed two pumpkins from the backyard last night to see what type of conversion can be had. Taking two of my smaller pumpkins(youth soccerball size), we chopped them up into 1" cubes and mashed them for an hour at 155F with 2 quarts of water. Then I turned up the heat and boiled the whole thing for 90 minutes. The resulting 2 quarts of pumpkin wort clocked in at 1.014 gravity. It also has a very intense, buttery pumpkin smell to it.

The pumpkin wort will stay in the fridge until brew day on Friday. My plan is to incorporate the spices and vanilla into the pumpkin wort as I bring it to a boil and then transfer the whole thing into the main wort at the 15 minute mark. Just long enough to kill bad guys. Hopefully that will preserve most of the pumpkin flavor. I'll post the results.
Click to expand...

Wow, hopefully I misunderstood your post. Mashing pumpkin without some kind of diastatic grain isn't mashing at all. Sounds like you have a pumpkin soup.

Secondly, the vanilla will be long gone if you bring it to a boil with the pumpkin and then boil it 15 minutes with the wort. Add it at flameout, or better yet, to secondary.
 
I want to create an Imperial Pumpkin Stout, similar to the one that Cape Ann makes. I'm going to use the recipe for Avery's Imperial Stout and add pumpkin flavoring to that. The only question I have is how much pumpkin flavoring to add to balance the intense flavor of the stout. Any ideas?
 
KingBrianI said:
Wow, hopefully I misunderstood your post. Mashing pumpkin without some kind of diastatic grain isn't mashing at all. Sounds like you have a pumpkin soup.

Secondly, the vanilla will be long gone if you bring it to a boil with the pumpkin and then boil it 15 minutes with the wort. Add it at flameout, or better yet, to secondary.
Click to expand...

I said mash, but I didn't mean it in a purely technical sense. My goal was to get as much of the flavor out as possible (bringing a few fermentables with it) and then add it in later so as not to lose it in the mash. I'll add that pumpkin soup to the main 5 gallon boil after doing a regular mash with 11 pounds of grain. Any thoughts?

Thanks for the info on the vanilla. I'll add to the secondary.
 
stalkingsamurai said:
I want to create an Imperial Pumpkin Stout, similar to the one that Cape Ann makes. I'm going to use the recipe for Avery's Imperial Stout and add pumpkin flavoring to that. The only question I have is how much pumpkin flavoring to add to balance the intense flavor of the stout. Any ideas?
Click to expand...

This Cape Ann Pumpkin Stout is also something I am going to try to clone as it is my favorite pumpkin ale. Although your idea for using Avery's Imp. as a base does sound good, the Fisherman's comes in at 7%ABV.
 
I have a question, if I'm using canned pumpkin and adding it to the wort, do I need to place it in a grain bag or can I add directly into the pot and stir it in?
 
Shane_PB said:
I have a question, if I'm using canned pumpkin and adding it to the wort, do I need to place it in a grain bag or can I add directly into the pot and stir it in?
Click to expand...

People do either way.
I dont think it really matters if you put it in the grain bag, because it all dissolves and seeps through anyway!
 
Shane_PB said:
I'll have to check a few more places, but they weren't stocking in the few places I tried.
Click to expand...

Yea I had a hard time finding it this year too. I just chalked it up to being too early (Since I don't usually start my pumpkin until September), I figured by September it would be more abundant. So this year I am using 60oz of that organic stuff that you linked above. Not sure if there is going to be a difference or not, but the preliminary tastes (wort and primary to keg rack) have tasted great with no noticable difference (except the price per ounce :) ). I haven't carbed it up yet, letting it age a little bit, but should be getting it going here really soon. :mug:
 
Ciliorozo said:
Yea I had a hard time finding it this year too. I just chalked it up to being too early (Since I don't usually start my pumpkin until September), I figured by September it would be more abundant. So this year I am using 60oz of that organic stuff that you linked above. Not sure if there is going to be a difference or not, but the preliminary tastes (wort and primary to keg rack) have tasted great with no noticable difference (except the price per ounce :) ). I haven't carbed it up yet, letting it age a little bit, but should be getting it going here really soon. :mug:
Click to expand...

I found the organic Pumpkin canned at a local Organic grocery. About $3.00 per 15 oz can. Oh well, a bit more expensive than I anticipated, but I want to get this going now so it should be ready by Halloween.

:)
 
Organic is the only thing you're going to find, and that's if you're lucky. I talked to the grocery manager at Whole Foods here in Columbus, OH and he said because of the bad crop last year they MAY NOT HAVE ANY PUMPKIN IN TIME FOR THANKSGIVING!! Fortunately I got some organic and knocked out my Pumking Clone last weekend :ban:
 
According to the news pumpkin canning is in process for this year's harvest. The news story I read said mid-September for delivery to most grocery stores. The shortage should be over soon.
 
Hey... thanks to all for this very helpful thread.

Based on all the feedback, I brewed yesterday. Used 3.75 pounds of the canned organic pumpkin plus 0.5 pounds of cubed butternut squash, all roasted at 350 deg F. Added this after dough-in of the grains and did a rest at 110 deg F for 15 minutes before sacharrification at 153 and a single decoction and second rest at 156-157.

My mash and lauter was very clean; the bed was dense but got a good run off and 80% or better yield. Used a batch sparge method and switched to continuous near the end. Post boil, the wort was already very clear with a beautiful golden orange color.. Kept the spices under control, (2 x 2.5" sticks cinnamon, 2 cloves, 1 split vanilla bean, 1/6 tsp nutmeg, some cracked allspice). Will assess at racking and use the "tea" approach for any final adjustments. (batch size was 7.5 to 8.0 gallons)

Using a nice malty, British strain (Thames Valley) at 64 deg F. Hoping to get a clean, balanced play out of the deal. Thanks again for all the accumulated experience here.

766-pumpkin-bill.jpg

767-pumpkin-step.jpg
 

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