Heady Topper- Can you clone it?

You'll be able to revive it for a year I'd imagine, but it's in its prime for 3 months. After that you gotta step it up a lot. I don't have numbers on viability yet, but once I get them, I'll have it on the web so everyone knows how much yeast they've got in the bottle and then you can use yeastcalc.com to calculate if you need a starter or not.

Any idea who will be carrying the yeast or will it be totally widespread? Got most of my ingredients for this brew but can't get any heady to culture from

D_Nyholm said:

Any idea who will be carrying the yeast or will it be totally widespread? Got most of my ingredients for this brew but can't get any heady to culture from

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www.yeastgeek.com

BeerGrylls said:

You can try the forum here, there may be a Vermonter (it appears to be *only* available in vermont these days) that will trade you: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f38/

Otherwise you could try the beer trading forum over at beeradvocate which draws from a slightly different crowd.

EDIT: i was going to mention seekabrew but that seems to cater to the U.S. only. You might be able to use it to find someone offering, however. You should start thinking about what locals you have access to, in order to make a valuable proposition.

Good luck.

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Thats the second time I've seen that type of remark about that place. Whats the deal? I saw someone post here about their trading section too... is it that bad?


...sorry for the thread jack

A fair amount of for-profit traders over there, that's all. Occasionally a rogue guy that'll screw you over and not send anything. Also a good number of great traders there. You'll have better luck at this site's sister site, www.beerforum.com.

This stuff is a monster. This is the second step up, currently at ~500 ml

I'm in love. I brewed with this last Sunday, a pale ale that came in at 1.060. I just went to take a gravity reading and after 5 days now it is at 1.008 and clear as a bell. Like crystal clear... Which confuses me, because it seemed pretty low floc in the starter, took a week to crash out in the flask. This beer is ready for dry hopping. It's unbelievable. Delicious too. Definitely taste some British notes. I fermented at 63 degrees.

Was your's still bubbling? I made a black IPA on Saturday and it's still bubbling almost 7 days later. I fermented at 67F all week.

mtnagel said:

Was your's still bubbling? I made a black IPA on Saturday and it's still bubbling almost 7 days later. I fermented at 67F all week.

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It's it a bucket so it doesn't bubble too much after a couple days because the lid isn't a perfect seal. There was still a thin layer of foam on top but the clarity of the beer was what got me. I'll let it sit for another two days and see if anything has changed.

I've brewed 6 different styles with this now and I'm starting to notice a lot of similarities in the taste profile. It's certainly unique and identifiable.

bottlebomber said:

It's it a bucket so it doesn't bubble too much after a couple days because the lid isn't a perfect seal. There was still a thin layer of foam on top but the clarity of the beer was what got me. I'll let it sit for another two days and see if anything has changed.

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Mine is in a bucket too. Very slowly, but still bubbling after 7 days.

theveganbrewer said:

I've brewed 6 different styles with this now and I'm starting to notice a lot of similarities in the taste profile. It's certainly unique and identifiable.

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What six styles? Obviously IPA is the style of choice. What other styles are good. Anything you tried that you would not recommend?

sybesbrew said:

What six styles? Obviously IPA is the style of choice. What other styles are good. Anything you tried that you would not recommend?

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1. Heady Topper Clone
2. Cascadian Dark Ale (Murky Depths)
3. IPA
4. Red IPA (pearl, munich, vienna, C120, roasted barley)
5. Imperial ESB
6. Scotch Ale, I think it's called a wee heavy??

So that was my progression with it. I'll sort of explain why I chose these styles, as I progressed to each after learning what Conan did to each recipe. After brewing like 15 versions of Heady Topper then switching to my CDA, award-winning I might add , I noticed an underlying flavor contribution that I didn't expect in the CDA with all the different malts I used. It was some nice fruity esters, surprisingly well-blended perhaps sweet malt, and a nice creamy texture.

I went with a regular IPA, did a whole new range of hops, and got the same yeast character so I decided to brew up a Red IPA, which was really an imperial irish red. The yeast really worked well with the Munich and Vienna and it was surprisingly good with the roasted barley.

Then I had an Imperial ESB at a bar one night and I instantly thought, this could be a great conan beer. That beer turned out fantastic. I would consider this a very appropriate yeast for the style.

Then finally I brewed a Scotch Ale, a 1.086 or 89 (can't remember, I was off from original recipe) which I thought would go well with the fruity esters, hop profile, good attenuation, and creaminess. Again, great beer style for Conan. I think I've only had 2 commercial versions of this style, but the one I made was very good, very popular.

I think what you want to look for with Conan is a beer that allows some fruity esters, not necessarily a hoppy beer, Conan can accentuate hop aroma, but it also accentuates malt sweetness at times because of the creaminess, and something that you don't want finishing too high. I got that Scotch ale down to 1.015 from 1.086-89.

Looking back at my comments I'd be tempted to say Conan is of English origin, despite my earlier belief it was Belgian. It's odd because the beers are very dry that it produces but at the same time, the mouthfeel and how it plays with the malt sweetness give off a bit of a malty sweetness in each beer.

Vegan- have you posted your recipe for cda or scotch ale? Do you mind sharing if not posted previously?

hbr2547 said:

Vegan- have you posted your recipe for cda or scotch ale? Do you mind sharing if not posted previously?

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http://signpostbrewing.com/murky-de...t-place-heart-of-cascadia-competition-recipe/

That's the CDA, I'll have a post on the scotch ale once I get some free time. It was basically Pearl, Torrified Wheat, Biscuit, C60, and Roasted Barley with EKG and Saaz.

The Imperial Irish red was similar grain bill as that, but hops were way different. El Dorado, Columbus, Cascade, Vanguard, Willamette, Amarillo, Chinook, Citra, and Riwaka. It's so good.

Thanks Vegan will be ordering supplies tonight

That dark ale looks great Vegan, thanks for the recipe. I've been wanting to try that midnight wheat and now I have a good excuse.

Giving it a go!

I have to say that vegan is the man. Brewed up v4.0 yesterday morning and hit 1.074 with a seemingly prefect brew session. Bubbling away nicely already at 62-63F ambient. Can't wait to get this thing on tap, thanks vegan!

When stepping up the Conan starter yesterday I went to add a drop of fermcap and it was stuck so with slightly more pressure I of course squeezed out a stream of fermcap which is probably equivalent to at least 10-15 drops in my 1.5l stater...anyone know how this could effect the yeast? I don't care about the actual chemical being in there as long as it wont hurt my baby yeasties

Also, can anyone give me specifics on how much yeast I should be pitching? I know vegan's blog said he aimed for 200-250 which may be slightly under-pitching depending on your stance, but should I be trying to pitch under/over/target with Conan? Any guidance / experience with this would be much appreciated!

Brewed 4.0 on sunday. Slight modification based on what I had available: flaked wheat instead of torrified wheat being the biggest I think, and I used Carapils. The basement smells amazing right now, as it is actively fermenting.

Also, the hopshots I got seemed underfilled. They are supposed to be filled to 5mL arent they? Both syringes had much closer to 4mL in them between the low fill and the air bubble.

Yea a few of my hop jizz shots have air bubbles in them and forgot about it until now. Is that oxygen in there or is that some other chemical like co2? I hop that doesn't effect the hop extract if I am storing it for a few months? Anyone know?

What water profiles have you been using for your clone attempts?

Just throwing out a weird observation:

I brewed an all-Citra IPA with Conan a few weeks ago. Pretty simple grist, lots of Citra @ flameout and dry. Fermented at 62-63. It came out insanely fruity with almost a tartness to it. Very strong ripe fruit flavor and aroma.

Last night, I had Evil Twin Femme Fatale Brett on draft at a local bar, which is a 100% Brett IPA. It has a strikingly similar profile, with the same ripe fruit and slight tartness. I wish I could have had them side-by-side.

Not necessarily suggesting that Conan is Brett, but man if they didn't produce a similar beer..

Seems like there's some microbiologist-type folk on this thread. Anyone ever look at Conan under a scope? My understanding is that brett and sacch would look quite different.

Al Buck of East Coast Yeast confirmed to me in January that it is indeed Saccharomyces Cerevisiae.

I did a split batch of a Centennial Pale Ale, my now 9th beer with Conan, split into 3 fermenters Conan/WLP001/Brett Trois. They are all pretty different so far Conan is the best, fruitier, bigger hop aromas and flavors.

I havent tried a carbed sampled of the Trois version, but it was noticeably different then the Conan batch. The reason I did this experiment was because I felt the same as you as far as the similar characteristics.

Unfortunately I may not see it all the way through as I racked the Trois version to a pin to be served on Club Night at NHC. So come by booth #41 for a taste, I hope I dont miss it myself.

Yeah, I don't get any brett similarities from Conan, and no it's not brett, I've looked at it a lot, just reg. sacc. I now believe it is of English origin.

theveganbrewer said:

Yeah, I don't get any brett similarities from Conan, and no it's not brett, I've looked at it a lot, just reg. sacc. I now believe it is of English origin.

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After racking off my pale ale I'm convinced that it is from it's flocculation habit. I should have taken pictures but basically it flocced into these little wads, about the size of raisins. Like little pebbles. The only yeast strains I have seen exhibit that behavior are WLP007 and US-04, both Brit strains.

And yes, definitely no Brett character of any kind in the Conan.

Coff said:

I havent tried a carbed sampled of the Trois version, but it was noticeably different then the Conan batch. The reason I did this experiment was because I felt the same as you as far as the similar characteristics.

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Glad to hear I'm not the only one who had that thought (and that I'm most likely not crazy). I'd be interested to see how the Trois Centennial Pale turns out, provided you get to try some. My club (Niagara Association) will be there with 15ish beers at club night. I didn't have much to do with it, but some of the guys are very good, experienced brewers.

bottlebomber said:

After racking off my pale ale I'm convinced that it is from it's flocculation habit. I should have taken pictures but basically it flocced into these little wads, about the size of raisins. Like little pebbles. The only yeast strains I have seen exhibit that behavior are WLP007 and US-04, both Brit strains.

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I know exactly what you mean. WLP007 is my preferred strain, and it looks almost like curdled milk on a starter - I have some stepping up right now. In Mitch Steele's IPA book, Kimmich shared a recipe for "El Jefe" (a black IPA). He recommends 007. It wouldn't surprise me if I were to learn that Conan is a mutated strain of 007.

jglazer said:

When stepping up the Conan starter yesterday I went to add a drop of fermcap and it was stuck so with slightly more pressure I of course squeezed out a stream of fermcap which is probably equivalent to at least 10-15 drops in my 1.5l stater...anyone know how this could effect the yeast? I don't care about the actual chemical being in there as long as it wont hurt my baby yeasties

Also, can anyone give me specifics on how much yeast I should be pitching? I know vegan's blog said he aimed for 200-250 which may be slightly under-pitching depending on your stance, but should I be trying to pitch under/over/target with Conan? Any guidance / experience with this would be much appreciated!

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I'm no scientist but I don't think it will hurt(or so I'm guessing). I did the same thing on my last step up last night, accidentally squirted about 3 drops or 1 drop and a big line of it!

According to my yeastcalc.com calculations I should be pitching with about 308 billion. I assumed 1.5 billion to start, I haven't read thru all of this thread but one on BeerForum said you can safely assume between 1 to 4 billion from the can. I took an extra amount from the can b/c I wanted to make sure since I got them via trade and don't have routine access to it!
My steps were:
1)150 ml of Heady + 100ml starter (about 1.037)
2)Added 750ml starter (about 1.040) - wanted to add less but I must have been asleep when measuring the water!
3)Added 800ml starter (about 1.037), total volume: 1.8L, it blew the foam stopper off the flask(forgot fermcap for this step)
4)cold crashed for 48 hours, decanted, left about 400ml in the flask, thick yeast cake on the bottom!!
5)Added 1.4L of about 1.040 starter, so I'm right at 1.8L(added Fermcap this time-see above)
Will cold crash it tomorrow night for about 24 hours for brew day.

Brewing this on Friday and CAN NOT WAIT!!!

jaydog2314 said:

I'm no scientist but I don't think it will hurt(or so I'm guessing). I did the same thing on my last step up last night, accidentally squirted about 3 drops or 1 drop and a big line of it!

According to my yeastcalc.com calculations I should be pitching with about 308 billion. I assumed 1.5 billion to start, I haven't read thru all of this thread but one on BeerForum said you can safely assume between 1 to 4 billion from the can. I took an extra amount from the can b/c I wanted to make sure since I got them via trade and don't have routine access to it!
My steps were:
1)150 ml of Heady + 100ml starter (about 1.037)
2)Added 750ml starter (about 1.040) - wanted to add less but I must have been asleep when measuring the water!
3)Added 800ml starter (about 1.037), total volume: 1.8L, it blew the foam stopper off the flask(forgot fermcap for this step)
4)cold crashed for 48 hours, decanted, left about 400ml in the flask, thick yeast cake on the bottom!!
5)Added 1.4L of about 1.040 starter, so I'm right at 1.8L(added Fermcap this time-see above)
Will cold crash it tomorrow night for about 24 hours for brew day.

Brewing this on Friday and CAN NOT WAIT!!!

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Yea from another thread I started about too much fermcap, it doesnt look to be a bad thing: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/will-too-much-fermcap-hurt-yeast-418283/

I stepped up my starter close to the volumes and steps you did and brewing this Saturday. I think I am using recipe 4.0 to the T. Which recipe do you plan on using?

Vegan,

What kind of water profile do you use for this beer?

Thanks!

jglazer said:

Yea from another thread I started about too much fermcap, it doesnt look to be a bad thing: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/will-too-much-fermcap-hurt-yeast-418283/

I stepped up my starter close to the volumes and steps you did and brewing this Saturday. I think I am using recipe 4.0 to the T. Which recipe do you plan on using?

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Yeah 4.0 got it ready to go for tomorrow can't wait!

My v4.0 has been hanging steady at 63F ambient/68F internal since Sunday and it has already finished and dropped most of the krausen. Still some activity and a thin layer of krausen, but essentially gone. 3rd brew w/ Conan and they've all been like this.

Water profile was:
Cal Mag Na Sulfate Chloride Bicarbonate
83 22 25 237 30 73

Awesome. This will be the first beer i brew after i finish moving.

Firing up strike water now. I did change the recipe to adjust for me a bit 11.5 pearl and 1/2 lb of each of other 2 malts.

theveganbrewer said:

http://signpostbrewing.com/murky-depths-cascadian-dark-ale-1st-place-heart-of-cascadia-competition-recipe/

That's the CDA, I'll have a post on the scotch ale once I get some free time. It was basically Pearl, Torrified Wheat, Biscuit, C60, and Roasted Barley with EKG and Saaz.

The Imperial Irish red was similar grain bill as that, but hops were way different. El Dorado, Columbus, Cascade, Vanguard, Willamette, Amarillo, Chinook, Citra, and Riwaka. It's so good.

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Any sub for midnight wheat?

hbr2547 said:

Any sub for midnight wheat?

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I've heard Weyermann Carafa III Special.

hbr2547 said:

Any sub for midnight wheat?

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Not really, it and Carafa III are important.

Doh forgot to turn off chiller when I got to 180 instead killed it at about 120ish. I doubt it'll do too much maybe lose a little aroma. I barely missed my pre boil gravity but i know already I boiled off more than I(BeerSmith) predicted so ill be curious to see my SG once it chills