OrdinaryAvgGuy
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understand.
Ways store associates respond (that make you want to set them on fire)
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understand.
We're not going to start this debate again, are we?
kombat
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That's because if Monday's headine was "Applebee's tell's war vet to f-off, continues to hang flags upside-down", then they'd lose millions.
kombat
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Who said anything about "sticking it to the man?"
And if a service/product is offered for $x, why is it unacceptable to pay $x +$y for it? Hell, it should be A-OK to pay $x alone for it. $x plus $z where z = anything above 0 should be above and beyond.
If I walk into a Lexus dealership that advertises an IS C for $35,000, and ask to buy one, and they expect me to tip $15,000 (it's actually a $50,000 car) and I don't, does that make me a jerk? Am I being mean to the salesman?
If a company advertises a product for $x, I expect to pay $x. Paying the tax is already a kick in the teeth. Throwing a mandatory tip on the pile is just adding insult to injury, especially when said tip is expected even for mediocre service. The only time paying strictly $x (i.e., tipping $0) is acceptable is in cases of grossly unsatisfactory service, and I think that's pretty manipulative.
That's why I avoid going out to sit-down restaurants as much as possible. Call me cheap, but if I see a billboard advertising a steak dinner for $19.99, I expect a 20-dollar bill to cover it. Anything less is false advertising.
Ostomo517
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kombat
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I want "taxes-in" advertising! I want everyone to work like gas stations!
If gas is $3.50/gallon, then I know I can get a gallon of gas if I only have $3.50 on me.
Why can't everything else work the same way?
If gas is $3.50/gallon, then I know I can get a gallon of gas if I only have $3.50 on me.
Why can't everything else work the same way?
I do not understand this argument. I will not ever understand it. We do not live in a socialist economy. I am not required to tip, and if I perceive you do be doing a crappy job, I will not do so. You are allowed to have hurt feelings because of my choice, and you are allowed to blame the cook if you think it's his fault that your tip suffered. In fact, if it was his fault, I expect you to go give him a piece of your mind. Maybe next time he'll do a better job, the food will show up on time, and you'll get a better tip. It's not my fault that your restaurant did not motivate me to spend extra cash, and I do not feel sorry for you. If you want more money, do something about it. Don't blame me.
And you've obviously missed my point.
shoreman
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Yuri_Rage said:
I understand where you are going with that - but believe me someone isn't going to further their awesome 'restaurant career' because this amazing person came in and usually they give me $1 but this time they gave me $2 - 99% of people don't choose to work those jobs - it's all out of need.
You expect me to throw a pity party and pitch some cash at every waiter or waitress I encounter because they must be working hard and getting underpaid and somehow that's my fault. Sorry, no.
No. Compulsory service is not what this nation was built upon. Good luck with what?
shoreman
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Yuri_Rage said:
all I'm saying is good luck not tipping and always making a big deal about it - IMHO it's no fun going out with people that put so much emphasis on a petty few dollars here and there. It's about the company you are with - not judging the service.
We still misunderstand each other. I'm usually a pretty generous tipper, and I don't make a big issue of it. I'm also not afraid to leave less or no tip when I perceive the service to be poor. A customer's perception will likely become the basis of his generosity. Every server should understand that.
I take issue with the argument that leaving a tip is somehow a social responsibility. And I take extreme exception to the idea that compulsory public servitude should be institutionalized in my country.
I take issue with the argument that leaving a tip is somehow a social responsibility. And I take extreme exception to the idea that compulsory public servitude should be institutionalized in my country.
Ostomo517
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Ignorance like this is why ppl should have to work a service job like shoreman said. Whatever perception you have in your head of how a restaurant works is dead wrong. Its not Hells Kitchen where you just go yell at the cook as you suggest. Ive had plenty that though they could but those that have worked for me know thats the easy way to find yourself unemployed. Second for the most part I know a lot of servers that have done the job for years and make really good money, thats why they do it. Its people like you and a couple others here that blow my mind on this deal. This tipping thing is not a new concept, servers and most bartenders make $2.25/hr. As for make the company pay them argument, if restaurants had to pay 30-40 more ppl $10/hr a day to serve, most ppl are not gonna be able to afford to go out to eat. But you have ypur argent and thats fine, bottom line is if you cant afford to go out to eat or are to cheap to, then just eat at home.
this. IME, customers are like allergies: an irrational overreaction to a common & mundane situation. the allergy doesn't know it's irritating and demanding. the servers are the cure. they can either do a good job and ease the suffering of the allergy, or do a bad job and make the allergy more irritating. who would you rather tip?
We don't eat out all that much anymore. 20 bucks can get some pretty decent take out, but eating there tipping and drinks set you back.
I can kinda see both sides of this argument though. I don't like the idea that servers make little money and customers are supposed to tip just because. But it serves its purpose. If there were no tipping food prices would be more and servers would be less inclined to work hard and EARN a tip.
I feel a tip is earned, not expected. I usually tip 15 to 25 percent based on service, but will tip less if I receive bad service. Only no tipped one time and found out my girlfriend snuck a couple bucks down (started a big fight). She felt bad for the guy and thought that since he admitted he provided poor service to us and said sorry he should get something, absolutely not.
I'm not hard to serve, keep my drink full, get my order right (if its wrong and you didnt write it down cause you can "remember" even worse), check in from time to time, and don't try to talk to much (i didn't come here to talk to you)
Bad food, cold food, crying babyat the next table, long wait for a table, etc does not affect my tipping.
I can kinda see both sides of this argument though. I don't like the idea that servers make little money and customers are supposed to tip just because. But it serves its purpose. If there were no tipping food prices would be more and servers would be less inclined to work hard and EARN a tip.
I feel a tip is earned, not expected. I usually tip 15 to 25 percent based on service, but will tip less if I receive bad service. Only no tipped one time and found out my girlfriend snuck a couple bucks down (started a big fight). She felt bad for the guy and thought that since he admitted he provided poor service to us and said sorry he should get something, absolutely not.
I'm not hard to serve, keep my drink full, get my order right (if its wrong and you didnt write it down cause you can "remember" even worse), check in from time to time, and don't try to talk to much (i didn't come here to talk to you)
Bad food, cold food, crying babyat the next table, long wait for a table, etc does not affect my tipping.
OrdinaryAvgGuy
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I agree with most of your viewpoints on this topic but this one was a little out there.
You do know that many who do this type of work are in fact working towards a better career - such as one going to school.
Please read my last post before making assumptions about what I can afford. I'm not too cheap to tip; I simply disagree that it is a social obligation. I tip according to service received. It's a simple concept that, by your own argument, clearly works.
Damn. Usually I kill threads with the "close" button. Good thing this is a mindless mumbling. Back to your regularly scheduled complaints about hardware stores.
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CreamyGoodness
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Honestly, part of the price of a meal or a beer at a bar is a tip. I'm not thrilled with the system, either, but it is what it is. If you sit down to eat, get the food you ask for in a reasonable amount of time and hasn't flung feces at you like a capuchin, you have already agreed to tip appropriately. Sorry.
I would hate to see the service if a restaurant paid the servers a regular wage. I am talking about your average restaurant not the high end ones. The way I see it would be if the server knows he is getting a pay check regardless of the service quality the quality in general would go down do to people not caring. There will be the argument that oh they will get fired if they give crap service but there are a lot of managers that don't care and employees as well. Could be wrong but that is how I see it.
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CreamyGoodness
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When I was in Ireland the bartenders said they received a prevailing wage and tipping wasnt expected. I found them to be attentive.
OrdinaryAvgGuy
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When I was in Ireland, the service was a bit slower than the states. As soon as you open your mouth and they realize that you are American, the service usually gets better.
I would always leave a 10% - 15% tip depending on the level of service. They know American's tip and they enjoy a small bonus from time to time.
There was one waitress that flat out refused my tip. I told her "Look, i know you don't tip here but I'm from the US and your service was good so here, take it!"
I had the same experience in England. cab drivers wouldn't even accept a tip.
in a bar, I tip big with the first round. if they ignore me after that, low tips. I tip in restaurants accordingly: how busy they are compared to attitude and their service.
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CreamyGoodness
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For me to not tip at all they would have to insult me or my wife, or just flat out not listen to my order/never being food. I've tipped 10 percent and said "that'll teach em."
Had too many friends who served call me furious or crying to not tip.
Had too many friends who served call me furious or crying to not tip.
That might be because if they get caught taking "cash" they might loss their job. Or they would need to fill in more paperwork to declare your tip for tax purposes and that hassle just ain't worth it to them
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CreamyGoodness
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Fair enough if that is true, matt, but the point is that paying a prevailing wage without a tip structure doesnt NECESSARILY translate to poorer service.
Yeah, sorry. I get that is the main point you were making, I agree with you
Coming from a country where tipping is not the norm I don't find that I get bad service all that often. The wait staff still have to do a good job because if they slack off and the service slips/is poor, then people returning is less likely and people will bad mouth the resturant. This leads to less people coming in, meaning less revenue and the first thing cut will be the underperforming wait staff.
hey man. I'm 'meircan. tipping is the norm here. I had no idea. just trying to be generous. they understood. cultural differences, innit?That might be because if they get caught taking "cash" they might loss their job. Or they would need to fill in more paperwork to declare your tip for tax purposes and that hassle just ain't worth it to them
Hey Billy, didn't mean to offend, just thought I'd mention some reasons why they might not be allowed to accept your tip. I guess most cabs now have cameras in them for the drivers protection, but they would also catch them taking cash tips
yeah, I was kinda trying to be funny. it's what I do.
Upthewazzu
Well-Known Member
I've worked both sides of the counter. Right out of college I worked retail and worked my way up to retail management very quickly. As I've moved on to a more corporate desk job, I still remember what it was like to be a retail grunt. The problem is that most retail grunt simply don't care. They think that because they're making minimum wage that they have the right to suck at what they're doing. They don't, period. I tried to educate myself as best I could about whatever it was that I was doing, no matter how trivial the task might have been. It really irks me when the person behind the counter is completely clueless, or even worse, doing something that they shouldn't be like talking on their phone or texting a friend. I also have a better appreciation when a person takes pride in their job and provides great service. They'll always get a smile, thank you, and tip (when appropriate) from me when they do.
petey_c
Senior Member
If you work retail and don't know what yer talking about, just admit it and help me find someone who can. The HD I most frequent (South Setauket) has the best electrical and plumbing SAs going. Retired master plumbers and electricians. I've been on both sides of the aisle and have found dealing with rude dipsticks is an art. Admittedly one I don't always possess...
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