AG equipment advice for an extract brewer

Want to go AG. I've been brewing extract for almost a year now, average about one 5gal kit a month. I need advice on what equipment I need to get started. I am on a budget and only have room to store minimal equipment. I currently own a 5gal kettle so I already know I need at least a 10 gal kettle. Thanks!

You can get a bag and do brew in a bag (BIAB).

Or you can make a mash/lauter tun. This is usually done by converting a water cooler. Or you can convert a fermenting bucket by either adding a spigot with a braided hose filter inside, or by making a zapap (a bucket with 1000 tiny holes drilled in the base sitting inside another bucket with a spigot in it.)

Bigger kettle, mash tun with false bottom or stainless braid, HLT (with sparge arm depending on how you will sparge), propane burner to name a few

BansheeRider said:

Want to go AG. I've been brewing extract for almost a year now, average about one 5gal kit a month. I need advice on what equipment I need to get started. I am on a budget and only have room to store minimal equipment. I currently own a 5gal kettle so I already know I need at least a 10 gal kettle. Thanks!

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I find it interesting that you already know you need a 10 gallon kettle without having brewed a single batch.

You're on a budget. So start small. Really small. Buy a 2 pack of paint strainer bags and brew a 2 1/2 gallon batch all grain BIAB right in your 5 gallon kettle. You'll soon know if all grain is something you want to continue with. You can do this batch right on your kitchen stove which is probably where you have been doing your extract kits.

If you decide you don't want to continue with all grain, you are out the investment in the paint strainer bags. If you do want to continue but don't want to put much money into it, buy a bigger kettle and continue with BIAB with the bags you already have purchased. You can reuse the bags until you wear holes in them so if you are careful you might get 10 batches from each bag.

As more money becomes available, the next purchase should probably be your own mill. It doesn't have to be fancy, good beer can be made with something as cheap as this one. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000U5NZ4I/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

By the time you have done a couple dozen batches, you will know much better whether to spend more money on a conventional mash tun or to stick with what you have that works. I may never buy a mash tun because I'd hate to spent twice as much time to get less brewhouse efficiency without any improvement in the quality of the beer.

Thanks guys. I currently do partial extract boils, which is why I said I needed a bigger pot if I want to stick with 5 gal batches. I forgot to mention that I already have a propane burner. So I will get better effenciency with the BIAB method?

BansheeRider said:

Thanks guys. I currently do partial extract boils, which is why I said I needed a bigger pot if I want to stick with 5 gal batches. I forgot to mention that I already have a propane burner. So I will get better effenciency with the BIAB method?

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You might, you might not. It depends mostly on the crush. Finer crush that is possible with BIAB should do that plus you collect all the wort and don't lose any to dead space in the mash tun. That is one of the reasons I suggested the Corona style grain mill. Besides the cheap cost, it can grind your grain quite fine which works well with BIAB. I tend to get about 80% brewhouse efficiency with no sparge BIAB or 85% or more if I sparge a little.

I really like these kettles. May be out of your budget, but the 15 gallon ones with the heavy bottom work great. Add a bazooka tube with stainless braid stuffed inside and filter out a lot before you even ferment.

About $250 shipped to you with the bazooka tube.

http://www.homebrewstuff.com/15-gallon-kettle-w-valve-thermometer.html

You can literally get a boil going in these, and pretty much walk away once you get the heat right. The wider base, the fat thick bottoms, really spreads the heat well and keeps boil over to an absolute minimum.

BansheeRider said:

Want to go AG. I've been brewing extract for almost a year now, average about one 5gal kit a month. I need advice on what equipment I need to get started. I am on a budget and only have room to store minimal equipment. I currently own a 5gal kettle so I already know I need at least a 10 gal kettle. Thanks!

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See www.dennybrew.com

I am assuming you already use filtered water and can quickly chill 5G batches (if not, that's more important than moving up to AG). Then, if you haven't already, invest in equipment to improve fermentations- make starters, oxygen injection, temp control. That may be the biggest "step up" in brew quality (if you're handy, you can make many of these things fairly cheaply). BIAB/ PM is a cheap step up, but opens the doors to recipe formulation. Get a good thermometer, I really like the Thermoworks (cheaper ones, around $25). If you enjoy BIAB, a cooler mash tun can be added to go to "real" AG.

Cyclman said:

[...]If you enjoy BIAB, a cooler mash tun can be added to go to "real" AG.

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(waiting for it)

Cheers!

I have/had a 22qt SS pot, a Zapap lauter tun, a floating dairy thermometer, a propane burner I took from by barrel smoker, and could only do partial boils due to needing headspace to prevent boil overs in my pot. That doesn't mean I made bad beers, It got to where I had too many pans on the stove reducing the liquid I had collected/sparged. I only made a few partial boils, because going AG was way cheaper. So, I learned the hard way about under/over sparging volumes. I now have a 40qt aluminum pot to be my mash tun, and I will still use my Zapap lauter tun, and even with such minimal equipment, I still make very good beer. One boil pot, 4- 5 gallon buckets, two 6.5 gallon buckets, and three spigots helps the transferring of the now boiled beer. I guess my point is, really good beer can be made with a bare minimum equipment list.

day_trippr said:

(waiting for it)

Cheers!

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OK, OK, sorry- I did not mean to demean PM in any way shape or form.

I was more referring to a HLT / MT / BK style of brewing that more closely reflects commercial systems. Both can produce identical, high quality beer.

Here is what I would do. I would move in the direction of improving all aspects of my beer and then step into all grain.

1. Go ahead and get a bigger kettle, you cant go wrong with a bigger kettle. Go ahead and get a 15g kettle. You can start using it now by doing full boils. It will be perfect for doing 5g batches and even do a 10g batch.

If you invest in a kettle with spigot, you can add a kettle screen or false bottom. You can then mash in it if you want. I think a cooler is better but you'll be set up if you want to give it try.

2. You need a way to chill wort quickly. That's a huge huge huge important thing. I personally recommend a 50 ft copper immersion chiller it can be upgraded later to whirlpool chiller and will work equally well for 5g or 10g batches.

3. I also recommend figuring out some temperature control, and proper yeast pitching. Those two things are very inexpensive and will make you beer 100% better whether you're doing all grain or extract.

Temp control is so often overlooked. It need not be complicated: bathtub and frozen bottles, freezer with temp control, or my favorite coolbrewing bags.

Making yeast starters is pretty easy as well, better with a stir plate but perfectly doable with a flask and some shaking. Pitching the proper amount of yeast is a night and day difference in terms of beer quality.

BansheeRider said:

Want to go AG. I've been brewing extract for almost a year now, average about one 5gal kit a month. I need advice on what equipment I need to get started. I am on a budget and only have room to store minimal equipment. I currently own a 5gal kettle so I already know I need at least a 10 gal kettle. Thanks!

Click to expand...

On a budget, you can do it in steps. Start with a bigger pot, then you can add a cooler at some point and use the bags in it. Then convert the cooler with a valve.

Or you could get a cooler first and do smaller batches in the same pot you have.

Or just do small batches in the pot you have using biab.

It all depends on the budget. I would start with a cooler and make smaller batches because that way you start learning how to use it.then you get a bigger pot and make bigger batches. But that's the same process. It's a $20 investment now with room to add on.

Cyclman said:

I am assuming you already use filtered water and can quickly chill 5G batches (if not, that's more important than moving up to AG). Then, if you haven't already, invest in equipment to improve fermentations- make starters, oxygen injection, temp control. That may be the biggest "step up" in brew quality (if you're handy, you can make many of these things fairly cheaply). BIAB/ PM is a cheap step up, but opens the doors to recipe formulation. Get a good thermometer, I really like the Thermoworks (cheaper ones, around $25). If you enjoy BIAB, a cooler mash tun can be added to go to "real" AG.

Click to expand...

bethebrew said:

I really like these kettles. May be out of your budget, but the 15 gallon ones with the heavy bottom work great. Add a bazooka tube with stainless braid stuffed inside and filter out a lot before you even ferment.

About $250 shipped to you with the bazooka tube.

http://www.homebrewstuff.com/15-gallon-kettle-w-valve-thermometer.html

You can literally get a boil going in these, and pretty much walk away once you get the heat right. The wider base, the fat thick bottoms, really spreads the heat well and keeps boil over to an absolute minimum.

Click to expand...

RM-MN said:

You might, you might not. It depends mostly on the crush. Finer crush that is possible with BIAB should do that plus you collect all the wort and don't lose any to dead space in the mash tun. That is one of the reasons I suggested the Corona style grain mill. Besides the cheap cost, it can grind your grain quite fine which works well with BIAB. I tend to get about 80% brewhouse efficiency with no sparge BIAB or 85% or more if I sparge a little.

Click to expand...

ericbw said:

On a budget, you can do it in steps. Start with a bigger pot, then you can add a cooler at some point and use the bags in it. Then convert the cooler with a valve.

Or you could get a cooler first and do smaller batches in the same pot you have.

Or just do small batches in the pot you have using biab.

It all depends on the budget. I would start with a cooler and make smaller batches because that way you start learning how to use it.then you get a bigger pot and make bigger batches. But that's the same process. It's a $20 investment now with room to add on.

Click to expand...

Wow thanks for all the suggestions. For the record I have been making yeast starters with a stir plate since day one and I do have a chiller. I think the chiller will be difficult to use with 5 gal of wort so I may need to upgrade. I've been brewing for almost a year now and I'm getting kinda bored, hense why I want to go AG. I have a cooler that is never used. My buddy said he can convert that into a mash tun and all I need is a bigger pot and maybe a refractometer.

Thanks again! This website is awesome!

7.5 gall aluminum turkey fryer kit $60 Home Depot, 36qt Coleman extreme cooler, $40 Walmart, hardware to convert $50 home depot. Use existing pot and stove for hlt, $150 total, and you will make that up in a year with the lower costs of buying ingredients instead of Kits!

meltroha said:

7.5 gall aluminum turkey fryer kit $60 Home Depot, 36qt Coleman extreme cooler, $40 Walmart, hardware to convert $50 home depot. Use existing pot and stove for hlt, $150 total, and you will make that up in a year with the lower costs of buying ingredients instead of Kits!

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Thanks for the suggestion. Funny you mention that cooler because that's the one I have collecting dust in my garage. I will go to the hardware store and convert it using this method.

For pots I want to stick with SS. Also can you recommend a good thermometer that can be used with a mash tun?

BansheeRider said:

Thanks for the suggestion. Funny you mention that cooler because that's the one I have collecting dust in my garage. I will go to the hardware store and convert it using this method.

For pots I want to stick with SS. Also can you recommend a good thermometer that can be used with a mash tun?

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That is the way to go for the conversion. I just use a standard calibration thermometer for mash temp, had a digital one that was nice, but it broke.

meltroha said:

7.5 gall aluminum turkey fryer kit $60 Home Depot, 36qt Coleman extreme cooler, $40 Walmart, hardware to convert $50 home depot. Use existing pot and stove for hlt, $150 total, and you will make that up in a year with the lower costs of buying ingredients instead of Kits!

Click to expand...

I did this, almost exactly, when I went all grain. I think I paid $30.00 for the cooler conversion kit. Bought a $15 digital thermometer.

Almost a year later, I still use all the same equipment. Make some pretty reasonable all grain batches and I have a good time with it

You can get an all stainless kit including ball valve from bargainfittings. They also have the already made ss braid. You can order it with a male end and it will screw right into the cooler bulk head. You may also need a hose barb on the outside for draining.

You can get everything you need for about $40 .

A bigger kettle is easy enough. The one listed earlier seems nice.

dracus said:

You can get an all stainless kit including ball valve from bargainfittings. They also have the already made ss braid. You can order it with a male end and it will screw right into the cooler bulk head. You may also need a hose barb on the outside for draining.

You can get everything you need for about $40 .

A bigger kettle is easy enough. The one listed earlier seems nice.

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That website is awesome! I am a little confused with which fittings I need so I may need to call them.

My personal experience is that I got better performance with my cheapo nylon ball valve that with a "real" bulkhead. Plus it was on $2.79!

Denny said:

My personal experience is that I got better performance with my cheapo nylon ball valve that with a "real" bulkhead. Plus it was on $2.79!

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I hear ya Denny...I've been using cooler mash tuns for years without a valve at all, simply clip or hook the tubing to the top of the tun...so simple yet works great IME, never a problem. I scratch my head when I see a $40 valve / bulkhead on a $20 cooler. Maybe if you want to fly sparge and control the flow rate out of the tun...but who needs that hassle IMHO.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/ten-minute-cooler-mash-tun-conversion-125108/

I'm assuming that's high temp tubing?

meltroha said:

I'm assuming that's high temp tubing?

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leboeuf said:

Maximum operating temperature on watts vinyl tubing is 175F. Lots and lots of people have used it for brewing with no ill effects, including myself over the last 5 years.

Taken from the Watts website:
Maximum operating temperature: 175 F. Brittle temperature: -40 F. Material: Clear, nontoxic, FDA and NSF listed PVC compounds. Hardness: A. Durometer: 80 listed by NSF, glass-like clarity and smoothness, abrasion-resistant, handles a wide variety of chemicals, gases, and liquids, visual contact with material flow. Can be used as protective or insulating cover, drainage lines of all kinds.

I've always used the braid reinforced stuff for brewing and it's done fine.
Tom

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Good to 175, never a problem for me. Sometimes the "high temp" tubing is merely reinforced to physically handle the temperature under pressure. No real pressure in this application. http://media.wattswater.com/ES-ClearVinyltubing.pdf