Hops at flameout instead of dry hopping?

Hi, I'm planning on doing an extract 3Floyd's Zombie Dust clone for a friends party in September and it calls for dry hopping naturally but I don't have time to do that and have it carb in the bottles by party time. If I put the extra Citra hops in at flameout instead of dryhopping, could I expect some decent aroma from them? Would this be a decent compromise or am I better off just brewing something different? I really want to have this ready by the party and if I can get close, that's alright by me. Thanks in advance.

Sure, you could also put the hops in the fermenter. All three techniques result in slightly different aroma profiles, none of them bad.

When in September? You can get a great dry hop in 2-3 days. Give it 5 days to ferment, dry hop as the yeast drops, bottle on day 8-10, ready to drink by day 20ish?

Flameout hops are great, but different as David said. You'll lose a good portion of the aroma during fermentation. No substitute for a dry hop in my opinion.

Thanks but I'd rather give it about 10 days in the fermenter to completely ferment and clean up so I definitely won't be dry hopping. So if I can get some of the effect of the dryhopping by using a large flameout addition of the Citra hops, I'll do it.

velorider11 said:

Thanks but I'd rather give it about 10 days in the fermenter to completely ferment and clean up so I definitely won't be dry hopping. So if I can get some of the effect of the dryhopping by using a large flameout addition of the Citra hops, I'll do it.

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Right, and I'm suggesting just adding your dry hops at day 7, right in the primary. It works, I promise.

I've done a few batches of Zombie Dust. I recommend dry hopping. The aroma is the best part of the beer.

I found that it takes about 6 weeks to get really good. I usually do 3-4 weeks in primary, dry hop in primary for 1 week, keg, force carb, and keg condition for 1-2 weeks. It can be a little harsh early on. The older it gets the more it mellows.

TyTanium said:

Right, and I'm suggesting just adding your dry hops at day 7, right in the primary. It works, I promise.

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This. If you're fermenting with healthy yeast and temperature control, no way it should be taking longer than 7 days. 2-3 days dry hopping, and you'll be golden.

Flame out works too, but since the hops are hitting the wort at 210 degrees, you're going to get a very different utilization than hitting the beer at 70 degrees in your carboy.

If you do go the flame-out route, I would get the wort down to 150ish, then add your flameout hops, then chill slowly over 30mins or so down to pitching temp. The warm-but-not-boiling gives you tons of flavor extraction wihtout boiling away the delicate hop oils.

i recently make a hop tea using a new coffee press and the hop aroma/flavor was the best i've ever had in any of my beers. it was a kegged beer but it should work right in the bottling bucket too.

TyTanium said:

If you do go the flame-out route, I would get the wort down to 150ish, then add your flameout hops, then chill slowly over 30mins or so down to pitching temp. The warm-but-not-boiling gives you tons of flavor extraction wihtout boiling away the delicate hop oils.

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I've been doing some research on flameout addition vs. dry hopping, and found some interesting things.... Tytanium is, IMO, on the right track with flameout additions. Cooling the wort down to about 140 and then adding the flameout addition while covering the pot for 20-30 minutes will get you great results.

Reason for this is because when you cover the pot, no volatile compounds can escape with the steam, leaving in those aroma compounds. That is the dumbed down science behind it and thats how i interpreted it in a nutshell.

fwiw, I know when I have done normal flameout additions in my past brews, with the cover off and right at about 210, I havent gotten much hop aroma and have been disappointed with the aroma in some of my brews, so I will most definitely do it this way from now. Of course you only do this to style.

Rake_Rocko said:

I've been doing some research on flameout addition vs. dry hopping, and found some interesting things.... Tytanium is, IMO, on the right track with flameout additions. Cooling the wort down to about 140 and then adding the flameout addition while covering the pot for 20-30 minutes will get you great results.

Reason for this is because when you cover the pot, no volatile compounds can escape with the steam, leaving in those aroma compounds. That is the dumbed down science behind it and thats how i interpreted it in a nutshell.

fwiw, I know when I have done normal flameout additions in my past brews, with the cover off and right at about 210, I havent gotten much hop aroma and have been disappointed with the aroma in some of my brews, so I will most definitely do it this way from now. Of course you only do this to style.

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+1... I did a 45min "hop stand" (aka whirlpool addition) on my most recent APA and I'm loving the fresh hop aroma and taste.

FWIW, I "slo-chill" and add a substantial amount of hops to the bucket as I drain my boil kettle. I let the wort cool over a couple hours, using water/ice, with the hops in the cooling vessel. I've had no need to dry hop with this method. I should note that that I drain the bk at about 180*F, about 30-40 mins after flame-out. Works great. Beautiful hop aroma even after fermentation. AND no messing w/ the fermenter to dry hop. Peace and quiet. And beer!

Add some dry hops on the 3rd day of primary, then rack on day 10 as planned.

From my experiences, dry hopping and the hop stand are not interchangeable and each do different things.

Hop Stand - delivers some excellent hop flavor, but I've never picked up a ton of aroma from hop standed (is that a word?) but the hop flavor has made it worth waiting for 30 minutes to chill. I follow this regimen for my hop stand - kill flame - whirpool wort +- 30 seconds - toss in flameout hops, cover kettle and let sit for whatever length of time you want.

Dry hopping- resinous fresh zesty aroma that I have to get adding any other way.

duckmanco said:

hop standed (is that a word?)

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I think it's "hopstood."

one thing no one has mentioned here is that some/a lot of the aroma of late-addition hops will be "blown off" during fermentation. while the yeast are doing their thing, they are off-gassing co2 which carries away some/a lot of the aroma.

dry-hopping is done post-fermentation, so no loss (or only very minimal) of aroma.

on the other hand, the heat of the wort helps extract the volatile oils so that's why you need to add more hops during dry-hopping: less efficient extraction. but sometimes, it's not about efficiency

I have done flameout-type hopping in several ways.

The first was to add the hops literally AT flameout and then start cooling with the top off.

The second was the same but with the top on.

The third was also AT flameout but I covered before cooling, waited 20 minutes and then cooled.

The fourth was to cool the wort to 180, then add the FO addition, cover and allow to rest for 20 minutes.

All of these had different results varying from only increased flavor to predominately increased aroma or a combination. Aroma seemed to increase with each successive method I tried. The fourth way I have found to be equivalent to or even better than dry hopping for aroma. And I definitely mean aroma, not flavor.

But keep in mind... in my experience, hop aroma (unless you are dry hopping in a keg from what I am told) will noticeably fade over the course of a couple of months no matter how you do it.

Don't we just call those "Steeping Hops"???

But I would just add them as soon as you airlock stops bubbling...

You will the bulk of the aroma from the first 3 days or so... Then it has to meld....

I would think this would work because even though the main part of the part of the fermantation is done there will still be active yeast doing there thing and mixing the oils....

DPB