San Francisco Brewcraft

On my web search for hard to find hops I found a place called San Francisco Brewcraft.

On Jan 18th I phone ordered a variety hops. 2 weeks later I hadn't received any shipment so I called back with a pleasant conversation and a re-shipment of the order.

Today I called inquiring about my still not received hop order when the manager (his name is Griz) proceeded to call me a f**king a$$hole. And went on to say he was tired of me giving him s**t.


I've always been proud of the camraderie among homebrewers and the friendly attitude at HBS's, brewpubs and craftbrewers.

In 50 years I've never been cussed and screamed at over the phone. Who'd of thought my first time would be a homebrew shop

Unless you can get in and get out with your order, stay away from their out-of- date website or the phone. I remain hopless.

http://www.freshops.com/ arrived within one week. no fuss, no muss.

Horrible, I hope you don't have to go through that again. I went to their website and saw their announcement that if you order 3 oz of hops you have to buy more ingredients otherwise they won't sell. I wish my company made enough money to turn away customers that didn't buy every service. I haven't used them but AHS and hopsdirect have been reviewed well by the others here and I can personally vouch for www.mountainhomebrew.com. They're a brick and mortar location as well as online sales and Jim has been a great support while I learn the craft. They have a hop limit... something like 8oz a variety.

Crap. I almost ordered from them. : /

So, did you ever get those hops?

They told me they were out of most everything. I was going to cancel the order but before I could say anything the phone was handed over to "Griz" who proceeded to dump his wrath on me.

I don't understand it. our first conversation was fun and we rapped about homebrew experiences. On my third call he yelled that I had been nothing but a "f**king dick" the whole time. I just bit my tongue and hung up.

I remember on our 2nd conversation when I asked about my non-arrival of hops, he was sarcastic saying "all we do around here is smoke weed" Judging from his phone personality I thing its more like meth.

Well I assume you'll try to get your refund/withdrawn order taken care of, right? Otherwise, it's time to get a hold of the BBB. And we're not talking about the Better Brewing Bureau here.

Griz

griz is a fat old man that sits in the back. i don't think he moves more than 20 feet in a day.

HOWEVER, they do have an amazing hop selection and were quite pleasant when i went to visit. i've only been there once. i guess ordering over the phone isn't the same deal.

and most companys are now limiting hop orders and/or making you buy ingredients with them. they have to, or they'll run out of hops. that part makes sense.

being an ******* doesn't, tho. sorry to hear that.

SF Brewcraft even stated they've had commercial brewers request hops from them, but turned them down.

This is Tucker from SF Brewcraft, whom you spoke with on the phone yesterday.

As you stated in your post and on the phone with me, hops are very, very hard to find these days, due to the international hop shortage which most of us are aware of. As a home brew shop it is especially dire as we have no contracts for hops so we get the scraps not purchased by breweries or larger outfits. As our website states, we have been forced to ration hops out to our customers due to the fact that we cannot get some varieties at all from our suppliers and for some varieties they will only send us 4oz. or so. If we filled every order of people trying to stock up on large quantities of hops (we get 2-3 a day), we would not have enough hops to sell full recipes to customers and we probably would have to shut our doors, as recipes are our bread and butter. Turning away customers is the last thing we want to do, but this hop policy is the only way we have figured out to provide service to everyone, rather than to a just a few people. Until your order, every one of our customers has been very understanding about this. If anyone has any suggestions for a way that they think would be better, I'd be more than happy to take their ideas into consideration.

Even in spite of this policy, we (and I personally) went out of our way to accommodate you. We filled your order the best we could and above our 3oz. hop policy. You cancelled your order on our google checkout service because you told us you didn't trust it. Also, you refused to let us ship it to you FedEx, which always has a tracking number, and insisted on the cheapest shipping at the post office. One of our employees walked over a mile down to the post office to mail the package to you and it was sent to the address you provided to us. We did exactly what you had asked of us. Also, it is fair to note that you have not been charged by us.

On the several occasions you have called you have been very tetchy and surly with us, especially yesterday on the phone with me. I was polite to you on the phone and tried to help you. I offered to ship you out whatever whole hops you wanted in quantities far exceeding our hop policy. We can't ship out any more pellets right now because we are out of many varieties and others we only have 3 or 4 ounces left. When I told you this you raised your voice at me and told me that you were going to go on several websites and write negative things about us, which apparently you've made good on. I don't know exactly what transpired on the phone with Griz but I expect you were yelling at him as well. However, I am aware that your attitude doesn't excuse profanity and I sincerely apologize to you for that.

We do our best to keep our website up to date, but please consider we are not amazon.com; we are a mom and pop business operating out of a very small storefront and that the situation with the hop shortage mess often changes day to day.

It's unfortunate your experience with us ended so negatively. We strive to make our customers happy, even if we often lose money doing so. Look at any of our reviews on sites such as yelp.com or beeradvocate.com. They are overwhelmingly positive as we do bend over backwards to make our customers happy. I can't tell you how many times I've delivered orders locally to customers on my days off or how often I've stayed behind after closing to help home brewers with questions or advice. Or the free brewing classes we offer for beginning brewers and all grain. You are right about camaraderie among home brewers and that is something we try to foster and encourage among home brewers in our city and beyond. We'd be happy to offer you a substantial discount on your next order if you ever decide to order with us again. Just call the shop and ask for me personally.

Once again, I apologize for the profanity from Griz, and if there is anything I can do for you, please call the shop and I'll as ever be more than happy to oblige you in anyway possible.

I have to tell you that SF Brewcraft is one of the coolest places that I have ever hung out at. Griz is awesome to talk to in person, and though he is different than most business owners, he doesn't bulls**t and he gives it to you straight. The other staff there are great and VERY helpful if you have any questions. Griz is the expert, and most unanswered questions go to him, and sometimes I don't agree with what he says. That being said, I know he's just trying to help me in the best way possible. Also, the store is about as big as a small bedroom, and yet they have always had what I wanted and needed.

I can't comment on how the interaction went with the OP, but I guarantee that if you had any sort of attitude with Griz, he gave it right back. That is just the type of person he is. He's been around a LONG time and has been brewing for MANY years. I am not saying that his attitude is right or wrong, but it just is. I guess my point is don't judge the business by just that one interaction, because it certainly is a hard-working mom and pop store with great employees that certainly go out of their way to accommodate their customers. I, for one, will continue to go to them for all my brewing needs.

Jason

well, like he said...it's not amazon. i had a great experience when i went there personally. and in regards to the internet ordering...sounds like he wants to accommodate...i would take advantage.

sfbrewcraft said:

This is Tucker from SF Brewcraft, whom you spoke with on the phone yesterday.


You cancelled your order on our google checkout service because you told us you didn't trust it.

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I cancelled the web order because the site wasn't up to date and I understand that hop selections are extremely volitile. I only cancelled it in order to redo it over the phone. Griz harped on the "computer nerd" who shows up sporatically to work the website.

sfbrewcraft said:

Also, you refused to let us ship it to you FedEx,.

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Griz never mentioned an option in our phone conversation

sfbrewcraft said:

On the several occasions you have called you have been very tetchy and surly with us, especially yesterday on the phone with me. .

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This is what angers and makes it personal for me. After my first pleasant talk with Griz, I called a total of 3 times. If this is what you define as several so be it. In my last phone conversation, I believe with you, I did express frustration that after 3 weeks I had not received nor had I even been charged for my order. I did refuse a replacement order of whole hops which I can't use for my purposes. Though I'm sure I didn't sound happy I do appreciate your effort to please a customer, but I was neither surly nor showered you with expletives. That is not in my nature.

I did hang up on Griz as he wouldn't allow me to talk. There is not much point in listening to him calling me a dick, a ****ing ******* etc etc. Is this how SFB treats their phone customers? I volunteer part time at an HBS and my real job entails dealing with actual dicks and ******** but I know how to conduct myself professionally and express any anger AFTER the phone is hung up.

sfbrewcraft said:

you raised your voice at me and told me that you were going to go on several websites and write negative things about us, which apparently you've made good on..

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My very last words were that I was an AHA member and that I would write on my forum about my experience, but this was not to you but Griz though I doubt he heard me through his rage. BTW this is the only forum where I've written about this. Look around.

sfbrewcraft said:

I don't know exactly what transpired on the phone with Griz but I expect you were yelling at him as well. .

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You're right you don't know what transpired. Be careful when you make assumptions


It's too bad that it came to this. A phone order problem + an owner with a hair trigger becoming a nasty meltdown with I'm sure an otherwise respectable HBS

Talk to Griz and see if he can remember our first conversation. We must have spent at least 30 minutes talking about the merits of non-hoppy beers. He told me a wonderful story about an aged ale using summit hops and its apricot aroma. Ask him.

sfbrewcraft said:

Once again, I apologize for the profanity from Griz, and if there is anything I can do for you, please call the shop and I'll as ever be more than happy to oblige you in anyway possible.

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I love San Francisco and the next time I'm there I'll come shopping. It's just best that I remain anonymous

Jayfro21 said:

I guess my point is don't judge the business by just that one interaction
Jason

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I have only 1 interaction and its the only one on which I can currently judge the business. There are plenty of other homebrew websites.

Kinda like meeting a group of people for the first time and one's in a bad mood. Which do you want to hang out with the next day?

photogscott said:

I have only 1 interaction and its the only one on which I can currently judge the business. There are plenty of other homebrew websites.

Kinda like meeting a group of people for the first time and one's in a bad mood. Which do you want to hang out with the next day?

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Hey man, I agree with you. I'm just asking you not to judge the business by one interaction, because I want you to feel you can still go to them if you need anything that they have. Just don't deal with Griz. And by the way, he told me the exact same story about the malty beer with summit hops. Very interesting, in more than one way. Take care!

Jason

lol @ this whole thread

"hey dude imma talk tish about you on a forum then"

"uh oh... i better redeem my name"

yeah this'd probably be better in PM's or something. Seems like sfbrewcraft is a descent place. I'm too far away though.

I had phone experience with a bill collector once named Mister .45
He was looking for someone with the same name as me. After calling me all sorts of mofo's and a looser and stuff I told him I would be right down to discuss his disrespect for adults. He forgot that he told me at the beginning of conversation who he represented. Anyway, turns out that he looked just like Barney Fife's kid brother. He was very cordial and apologetic at our face to face. It amazes me how some people like to be telephone/internet tough guys.

AP

Jaeger48 said:

Horrible, I hope you don't have to go through that again. I went to their website and saw their announcement that if you order 3 oz of hops you have to buy more ingredients otherwise they won't sell. I wish my company made enough money to turn away customers that didn't buy every service. I haven't used them but AHS and hopsdirect have been reviewed well by the others here and I can personally vouch for www.mountainhomebrew.com. They're a brick and mortar location as well as online sales and Jim has been a great support while I learn the craft. They have a hop limit... something like 8oz a variety.

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I have never ordered from the online, but I can +1 mountain homebrew as far as their physical location goes. They are a good resource, here in the Seattle area.

i'm taking back my statement about SF Brewcraft. I bought two recipe kits and they still drastically limited my hops.

Something was wrong with my grains. I had them crushed and kept them sealed in the bag for two days. When i went to use them they smelled funny. i tasted them and they were really bland and weird. I think it was just old. maybe they didn't sell enough of that kind for a long period of time.

Griz basically told me that everything i was doing was wrong in regards to my grain selection...funny cuz the recipe i was making is 3 of my friends favorite brew and, sincerely, is one of the best beers i've ever tasted, not just of my own either.

Griz also told me that he gets the Laaglander Wheat DME because it's the best. I thought the name sounded familiar, that stuff makes for very low attenuation. i also didn't notice the bag was ripped until i got home and it spilled everywhere when i took it out of the shopping bag.

I threw most of my purchase away. basically i ended up paying about $80 for two vials of yeast and 6 oz of hops.

they have a great hop selection and in general it's a pleasant experience. it's unfortunate this had to happen.

I'm sure most people that shop there would disagree with me. The first time i went there everything turned out great...i'm drinking a wonderful belgian beer i made with thier ingredients.

But after this, it's not worth the drive to give them my business.

Sorry guys, you have a nice little shop otherwise. I'm going to stick with Oak Barrel and B3.

DeathBrewer said:

~snip~

Sorry guys, you have a nice little shop otherwise. I'm going to stick with Oak Barrel and B3.

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Definitely no reason to get sub-par ingredients with B3 and Oak Barrel around. B3 goes through a ridiculous amount of stock due to their mail order busines... everything I've ever purchased from them has been top quality.

And the crew at Oak Barrel is just cool...I love the vibe in that shop.

Here's to living in the Bay Area, and not having to use mail order. Can I throw down a banana for that?

Oak Barrel is the best homebrew shop on the planet

I've never been there! I should check it out...the only thing with me is that I live like .5 mile from SF Brew Craft, and have yet to have a bad experience. But I absolutely know what you mean about Griz...I try and not talk to him that much cause I've never heard a positive thing out of his mouth. That is just the type of person that he is, take it or leave it! I've been thinking about using B3 or AHS or one of the other online retailers, but I just hate to pay for shipping when I can go and pick it up.

Jason

Take I-80 E towards Sacramento, exit Gilman in Berkeley, turn right on San Pablo and its about a block down on the left side.

You'll thank me later

DeathBrewer said:

Take I-80 E towards Sacramento, exit Gilman in Berkeley, turn right on San Pablo and its about a block down on the left side.

You'll thank me later

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Thanks! I'll have to check it out soon!

....but why do they call him Griz?

surprised to see my thread re-awaken

Lots of time to reflect back to my experience. Anytime an old school bricks-n-mortar shop ventures into the world of web sales customer satisfaction becomes that more delicate. A bad experience can spread like wildfire especially in an industry populated with active web forums such as homebrewing. I wanted to jump into other forums and "spread the word" but fortunately-at least for my sake-HBT was enough to vent my spleen.

Next time I find myself in the Bay Area I will have to visit SFB (annomously) It looks like a fun place and it sounded like a party atmosphere in the background din on the phone. Does Griz really sits in the back like one of those cigar Indians?

I now web shop at Northern Brewer and Austin Homebrew. they both have different yet fairly generous hop policies.

Thread CPR...

I dunno why they ventured into the online thing, there at their max for a store front. I've never ordered online from them and probley never will. The store front has always been a good experience.

Griz is as you describe, but you gotta take it with a grain of salt. He can almost be like the soup Nazi, but thats what I like about him.

I go there for pretty much everything. Sometimes they don't have little things like a keg tower, faucet, or bazooka screen. Thats when I make an online order. I also go to oak barrel, but only when I am in that area.

So yes check the store out when your in the area, don't order online from them (less hops for me and other sf folks), and give me a call and I can pour ya a homebrew.

DeathBrewer said:

Oak Barrel is the best homebrew shop on the planet

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Yeah, and it's a 5 min bike ride from me... dangerous.:cross:

I just moved to San Francisco recently and was excited to have a homebrew shop in the city (there's not a single LHBS in nyc, believe it or not).

Anyway, moving across the country is super expensive, so I ended up selling / giving a lot of my brewing stuff away, figuring I could replace it after we settled down into the new place.

Despite all the warnings, I figured I'd give San Francisco Brewcraft a shot. What a horrible experience! I ended up walking out of there without buying anything, and just placed an order online at northernbrewer (the oak barrel sounds awesome, but I don't have a car out here yet... maybe I'll rent one at some point and check it out there).

I knew exactly what I wanted, but both an employee there and later Griz himself told me that everything I was doing was wrong, and only a moron would brew the way I was brewing. Granted, I'm relatively new to home brewing, but I've been doing a ton of reading (online, forums, books), talking to a ton of people in person, listening to podcasts, etc. I'm not doing anything that crazy. Of course, I'm always open to hearing new technique, etc., but these guys were just hostile and attacking. It was really ridiculous... I couldn't believe it.

After talking to the first employee, I thought, whatever, I'll just get what I need and ignore him, but after receiving the same treatment from Griz, I just left without buying anything...

Be wary of San Francisco Brewcraft!

Such a shame, I was looking forward to having a nice LHBS in the city....

Wow! I started brewing in SF and I loved SF Brewcraft. We used to call the owner Bubble Throat because of the way he talked. That guy was always cool to me IRL but he was kind of a dick once when I called him. A guy that used to work there when I was going there left to start Speakeasy and he was really cool, he gave me a few pints of some French Ale he made @ 9% I was blasted when I left. That was the best, most balanced strong ale I ever had. Anyway I thought I'd stick up for Brewcaft and Bubble Throat lol. It's funny there was another shop in SF that I went to once because Brewcraft was closed and that guy kept his hops sitting on a shelf in sunlight and he gave me a beer and it was totally flat, I thought he was an idiot but turns out after he died everybody was praising this guy, apparently he was one of the first homebrew shops in the country, opened up in 1979. Now I feel bad I thought he was a *******.

This is an old thread, but I think it needs a reply.

SF Brewcraft is an amazing place. They have the best customer service of any homebrew store I have been to in the bay area. Everyone there knows what they are talking about. Griz has an incredible amount of knowledge about brewing and he is willing to share it.

This is my go-to place for homebrew supplies, even though they are not the closest place to where I live.

jeremybrooks said:

This is an old thread, but I think it needs a reply.

SF Brewcraft is an amazing place. They have the best customer service of any homebrew store I have been to in the bay area. Everyone there knows what they are talking about. Griz has an incredible amount of knowledge about brewing and he is willing to share it.

This is my go-to place for homebrew supplies, even though they are not the closest place to where I live.

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Yep, Griz will give it to you straight. He has some incredible recipes. If you ever go there, bring a cute girl with you. He's a wealth of knowlege and can be fun once he gets to know you.

Funny how things never change. This place will always be a bit controversial. I have been a few times and it has never been a good experience. A few times it has been ok and once really quite disappointing. I'll continue to use them in a pinch (need something right now) but I will use Williams for 90% of my purchases as basic shipping ($7) gets to me overnight and their selection is broad.

If Brewcraft works for you, great. It probably isn't for everyone. But I do hope they succeed as I like small, local businesses. It just ain't for me. Maybe I am a little meek for the place.

I haven't found any issues with the folks at SF Brewcraft. I'm a total newbie, and I admit it up front. I value their advice, and they give really great straight-up advice, too.

The store is super tiny (smells awesome in there, though) and if there are a few customers it can start to feel like you're standing in the way.

But, even when it's busy, they've taken the time to explain basic things to me without giving me any attitude at all - I've never felt rushed.

I bought my first kit (including equipment) from SF Brewcraft, and went there again the next day because they forgot to include the hops in the recipe kit. Griz obviously knows what he's doing, but seems very set in his ways and will tell you straight up if he doesn't agree with something.

Johnny, the other guy that I talked to at the shop, was real cool. I like the atmosphere of the place, and wouldn't hesitate to go back if I still lived in the Bay Area.

Brewcraft is a great shop,theres always someone on here complaining that their LHBS sucks..Im happy to have Brewcraft as mine.

Though i could see how it could turn some people off,might feel a bit intimidating or non welcoming to new comers...Small,locally owned,male dominated specialty shops can feel that way sometimes.Just like any skateboard,or car,or comic,or bike shop I've ever been in.

When you get down to it,everyone who works there knows what they're talking about and is helpful if you need it.Which is pretty much all i ask.