Islandboy85
Well-Known Member
Would I be getting close to the same results, probably not quite as dark of a final product, doing direct fire step instead of decoction?
JonK331 said:Not really because decoction involves actually boiling part of the mash. You can use some melanoidin malt or a malt with high melanoidin content such as Munich to mimic the effects of a decoction.
Not really because decoction involves actually boiling part of the mash. You can use some melanoidin malt or a malt with high melanoidin content such as Munich to mimic the effects of a decoction.
Denny said:First, you have to assume that decoction has effects those malts will mimic. I have not found that to be the case. Read this, starting on pg. 25...http://www.ahaconference.org/wp-content/uploads/presentations/2008/DennyConn.pdf
Then, you should read this.....
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/decoction-vs-melanoidin-malt-345844/
First, you have to assume that decoction has effects those malts will mimic. I have not found that to be the case. Read this, starting on pg. 25...http://www.ahaconference.org/wp-content/uploads/presentations/2008/DennyConn.pdf
Then, you should read this.....
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/decoction-vs-melanoidin-malt-345844/
Nice reads. We do know that decoction creates melanoidins that are not there if we don't decoct. That's where the logic comes from with using malts that have higher melanoidin content. So while adding those types of malts may not be exactly the same as decocting, it is closer than not using them at all.
Keep in mind that melanoidins are colors, not flavors. Melanoidin malt is misnamed, I feel. It has a distinct flavor as well as the color.
Sure but let's take a step back. The Maillard reaction is what creates the melanoidins in the first place, along with other compounds that DO have flavor. Saying that the reaction does not change flavor would be wrong. Like saying an untoasted piece of bread doesn't taste any different than a toasted one. So yeah it might be more appropriate to call it Maillard Malt.
Another point to observe is that when decoction was the norm, there weren't all these specialty malts. Basically meaning that ALL of our specialty malts including crystal malts have gone through the Maillard reaction which creates both melanoidins and flavor compounds. That said, and I don't know the answer, does something like Victory Malt (non crystal specialty malt) have the same compounds as Munich or Melanoidin Malts? Sure, the level of these compounds, including melanoidins, change depending on how the malt is roasted/toasted but by how much? Also, is Lovibond an indication of how much of these compounds are present?
Great discussion by the way.
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