gbuttar
Member
I'm a new brewer, having trouble with a persistent infection. Here's a quick summary:
I have brewed 5 to date, my first turned out fine (not super, but not ruined). Since, then, I have a bug (from what I've read seems like lacto) in all of my beers. Here are the symptoms:
-3 of them developed a thin translucent to whitish skin on the surface well after fermentation completed (all achieved FG with no changes) which breaks into pieces when disturbed
-the first three of them have tasted thin and very sour (not entirely undrinkable, but a very distinct sour taste that overwhelms all other flavors). My current beer (bottling today) still tastes fine (was only in primary, no secondary, dry hopped after three weeks, cold crashed for two days, shortly after cold crash the film became evident and now is very obvious - breaks apart & clings to wall of carboy when I tilt the fermenter).
What I've done so far (for this latest brew bottling today)
-ALL plastics have been replaced (where all new from my LHBS for this last brew)
-nuked my glass carboy (two soaks in hot water & oxyclean - 1 full soop, a 24 hr soak in fairly concentrated bleach - about 1 cup/gallon) followed by a second soak with fresh bleach, rinsed well, used star san with distilled water for final sanitation before use. I got pH strips to check the star san, strip appears to indicate 2.8 pH
-boiled (completely submerged) my starter flask in my brew pot for 20 mins
-boiled (completely submerged) all my stainless steel equipment
My brew process (in excruciatingly great detail):
-I clean/disinfect my brewing area (kitchen) prior to doing anything brew-related
-For my starter, I boiled my DME in a clean pot for 15 min. I filled my recently boiled flask with star san with the stir bar inside. At end of boil, I dumped the star san from the flask, placed it in a large pot with room temp water in it. I then poured the still boiling-hot starter wort into the flask, covered with sanitized foil, poked a thermometer through (boiled and sanitized), and then add ice to the water in the pot. When at 70 F, I took my yeast (wyeast smack pack) which was smacked 3 hours prior, and was soaking in star san, tore it open with sterile gloves, and poured it into the flask. I put fresh sanitized foil on top, and then place it on my stir plate (located in a clean chest freezer which I went over with bleach before this last brew).
-I used a home-made immersion chiller which I pre-boiled, and then placed into the brew pot for the last 15 mins of the boil. I used hop bags for my hops. I know this isn't best practice flavor wise, but I kept the pot boiling for an extra 5 minutes after removing the hops bags. I also sprayed the top of my IC with star san (in case the steam didn't properly sanitize)
-While cooling, I left my pot lid off and stirred the wort around the chiller. The spoon I used was the same one I used during the boil. I kept a separate pot of boiling water going on the stove, and before using the spoon for stirring, I scrubbed it clean, boiled for a few minutes, and then stuck in a bucket of star san. Thermometer I used was also boiled/sanitized before putting it in. I also (as an extra precaution) got a sterile mask, sleeves and gloves from my girlfriend (she works in a pharmaceutical manufacturing facility). I put these on right after taking the pot off the stove. It took about 15-20 minutes to cool the wort. I then dumped the star san rinse out of my glass carboy (recently bleach bombed), put in a stainless steel funnel (recently boiled and then placed directly into star san solution) and poured the cooled wort into the funnel.
-I put sanitized foil over the top of the carboy, and then shook it to aerate.
-I then poured in top off water. This was not boiled, but it was store bought (deer park distilled water), and I sprayed the tops of the jugs with star san before pouring
-I swirled this all together, and then took my OG reading with a stainless steel sampler (again, recently boiled and then placed in a star-san bucket until use)
-I pitched the starter directly into the fermenter (no crash cooling, dumped it all in).
-I then put on a new carboy cap/three piece airlock, and then filled the airlock with vodka. The entire thing was assembled wet submerged in star san.
Fermentation began with a few hours, very vigorous.
During fermentation this time, I did start to get blow-off through the airlock. I quickly boiled some silicone tubing, and then dunked it in star san, and attached to the carboy cap (all done while still wet/submerged again). The tubing ran into a 1 gallon jug filled with star san solution. While making the transfer, I covered the carboy with sanitized foil. After about 10 days, I put the three piece back on using the same basic system.
My FG sample was taken with the stainless steel baster (not boiled again, but submerged in star san before use). The sample was not returned to the carboy.
I dry hopped after three weeks. I weighed the frozen pellets in a sanitized bowl, and added to the carboy with a sanitized spoon (no bag). These were from a bulk bin at my LHBS, so it's possible (likely in fact) that they were touched by unsanitized hands/scoops etc. previously.
I appear to be getting the same bug in each one (tastes/looks exactly the same), although my carboy (which was bleach bombed) and my stainless spoon (boiled) where the only pieces of equipment that are the same. I initially suspected my apartment, but I moved between brews 2 & 3, so having excessive airborne bacteria in both seems to be a stretch.
Holy novella Batman! I apologize for the lengthy post, but I wanted to be thorough, because gaps in my general sanitation methods seem to be the most obvious answer. I would greatly appreciate any advice regarding anything I may have missed/could do better. My current suspects (although all seem unlikely):
1) Airborne (I moved between brews so doesn't seem likely, I do have a central air system which I've heard can circulate bacteria). Should I not be aerating by shaking the carboy? Should I siphon instead of pour from kettle to carboy?
2) Glass carboy (the only piece of equipment I have not replaced, could anything survive bleaching? Should I try sterilizing in the oven?)
3) Top off water (I imagine deer park sanitation practices must be better than mine, so I can't really see this being the cause, and don't see the benefit of boiling it, as I would more likely risk contaminating it myself). Any better systems other than full boil/smaller batch?
All other suspects would have to be all isolated instances, which, given the fact that visible infections are supposed to be quite rare, seems unlikely (ex. one time took longer to cool, the dry hops in this most recent batch etc.)
Again, any advice/ideas would be greatly appreciated. I'm kinda grasping at straws here.
I have brewed 5 to date, my first turned out fine (not super, but not ruined). Since, then, I have a bug (from what I've read seems like lacto) in all of my beers. Here are the symptoms:
-3 of them developed a thin translucent to whitish skin on the surface well after fermentation completed (all achieved FG with no changes) which breaks into pieces when disturbed
-the first three of them have tasted thin and very sour (not entirely undrinkable, but a very distinct sour taste that overwhelms all other flavors). My current beer (bottling today) still tastes fine (was only in primary, no secondary, dry hopped after three weeks, cold crashed for two days, shortly after cold crash the film became evident and now is very obvious - breaks apart & clings to wall of carboy when I tilt the fermenter).
What I've done so far (for this latest brew bottling today)
-ALL plastics have been replaced (where all new from my LHBS for this last brew)
-nuked my glass carboy (two soaks in hot water & oxyclean - 1 full soop, a 24 hr soak in fairly concentrated bleach - about 1 cup/gallon) followed by a second soak with fresh bleach, rinsed well, used star san with distilled water for final sanitation before use. I got pH strips to check the star san, strip appears to indicate 2.8 pH
-boiled (completely submerged) my starter flask in my brew pot for 20 mins
-boiled (completely submerged) all my stainless steel equipment
My brew process (in excruciatingly great detail):
-I clean/disinfect my brewing area (kitchen) prior to doing anything brew-related
-For my starter, I boiled my DME in a clean pot for 15 min. I filled my recently boiled flask with star san with the stir bar inside. At end of boil, I dumped the star san from the flask, placed it in a large pot with room temp water in it. I then poured the still boiling-hot starter wort into the flask, covered with sanitized foil, poked a thermometer through (boiled and sanitized), and then add ice to the water in the pot. When at 70 F, I took my yeast (wyeast smack pack) which was smacked 3 hours prior, and was soaking in star san, tore it open with sterile gloves, and poured it into the flask. I put fresh sanitized foil on top, and then place it on my stir plate (located in a clean chest freezer which I went over with bleach before this last brew).
-I used a home-made immersion chiller which I pre-boiled, and then placed into the brew pot for the last 15 mins of the boil. I used hop bags for my hops. I know this isn't best practice flavor wise, but I kept the pot boiling for an extra 5 minutes after removing the hops bags. I also sprayed the top of my IC with star san (in case the steam didn't properly sanitize)
-While cooling, I left my pot lid off and stirred the wort around the chiller. The spoon I used was the same one I used during the boil. I kept a separate pot of boiling water going on the stove, and before using the spoon for stirring, I scrubbed it clean, boiled for a few minutes, and then stuck in a bucket of star san. Thermometer I used was also boiled/sanitized before putting it in. I also (as an extra precaution) got a sterile mask, sleeves and gloves from my girlfriend (she works in a pharmaceutical manufacturing facility). I put these on right after taking the pot off the stove. It took about 15-20 minutes to cool the wort. I then dumped the star san rinse out of my glass carboy (recently bleach bombed), put in a stainless steel funnel (recently boiled and then placed directly into star san solution) and poured the cooled wort into the funnel.
-I put sanitized foil over the top of the carboy, and then shook it to aerate.
-I then poured in top off water. This was not boiled, but it was store bought (deer park distilled water), and I sprayed the tops of the jugs with star san before pouring
-I swirled this all together, and then took my OG reading with a stainless steel sampler (again, recently boiled and then placed in a star-san bucket until use)
-I pitched the starter directly into the fermenter (no crash cooling, dumped it all in).
-I then put on a new carboy cap/three piece airlock, and then filled the airlock with vodka. The entire thing was assembled wet submerged in star san.
Fermentation began with a few hours, very vigorous.
During fermentation this time, I did start to get blow-off through the airlock. I quickly boiled some silicone tubing, and then dunked it in star san, and attached to the carboy cap (all done while still wet/submerged again). The tubing ran into a 1 gallon jug filled with star san solution. While making the transfer, I covered the carboy with sanitized foil. After about 10 days, I put the three piece back on using the same basic system.
My FG sample was taken with the stainless steel baster (not boiled again, but submerged in star san before use). The sample was not returned to the carboy.
I dry hopped after three weeks. I weighed the frozen pellets in a sanitized bowl, and added to the carboy with a sanitized spoon (no bag). These were from a bulk bin at my LHBS, so it's possible (likely in fact) that they were touched by unsanitized hands/scoops etc. previously.
I appear to be getting the same bug in each one (tastes/looks exactly the same), although my carboy (which was bleach bombed) and my stainless spoon (boiled) where the only pieces of equipment that are the same. I initially suspected my apartment, but I moved between brews 2 & 3, so having excessive airborne bacteria in both seems to be a stretch.
Holy novella Batman! I apologize for the lengthy post, but I wanted to be thorough, because gaps in my general sanitation methods seem to be the most obvious answer. I would greatly appreciate any advice regarding anything I may have missed/could do better. My current suspects (although all seem unlikely):
1) Airborne (I moved between brews so doesn't seem likely, I do have a central air system which I've heard can circulate bacteria). Should I not be aerating by shaking the carboy? Should I siphon instead of pour from kettle to carboy?
2) Glass carboy (the only piece of equipment I have not replaced, could anything survive bleaching? Should I try sterilizing in the oven?)
3) Top off water (I imagine deer park sanitation practices must be better than mine, so I can't really see this being the cause, and don't see the benefit of boiling it, as I would more likely risk contaminating it myself). Any better systems other than full boil/smaller batch?
All other suspects would have to be all isolated instances, which, given the fact that visible infections are supposed to be quite rare, seems unlikely (ex. one time took longer to cool, the dry hops in this most recent batch etc.)
Again, any advice/ideas would be greatly appreciated. I'm kinda grasping at straws here.