jjp36
Well-Known Member
you can add it hot. I added mine right from the pot it was in right into my brew kettle. Worked fine for me.
I've tried this twice, once at 260F and the other at 280F, and both times the sugar did not darken AT ALL. I'm beginning to think that the baggy my LHBS labeled Di-Ammonium Phosphate yeast nutrient is not or is not pure DAP.
What does your guys DAP look like? Mine has an ultra-fine white powder with bead-like translucent crystals mixed in, which along with my candi syrup results, is leading me to believe it's not pure DAP.
I did this just to try out at the lower end of the level. I figured I'd be adding sugar to the recipe so why not? I think I could smell a hint of the ammonia from time to time.
So there seem to be some veteran candy makers on this thread that can help me out here.
If my sugar "syrups" are crystalizing as soon as they cool (in essence I'm getting more of a paste that hardens very quickly), is my second terminal temp getting above soft ball (post water addition), or is my first terminal temperature too high (pre-water addition), or should I add more water? Color and flavors have been spot on with Snicks descriptions, but the consistency of the syrup is similar to what James Spencer and Steve get on the HBR sugar-making video podcast.
Make sure you're using beet sugar, supposedly cane sugar can crystallise on you.
I've made this about a half dozen times. If you don't mind a little extra volume of syrup, you really don't have to reheat this to 240F. Just heat it till boils again after the second water addition and you will not have to deal with the crystallization issue. It will stay syrupy even at room temp.
This isn't caramel and isn't inverted sugar.
From the standpoint of sanitation, what is the recommended procedure for adding to the primary? I was thinking about throwing it in the microwave for a 30 seconds or so before adding to the primary, but I am sure there is a better way.
Care to elaborate? It should be inverted, though I can see the caramel....
This most certainly is inverted sugar, as the heat and pH causes the sucrose to become glucose and fructose, thus, inverted.
I bottle one 'clear' bottle. If I put the sugar in the pressure cooker with some acid it does carbonate faster than just plain boiled sugar. To me that indicates the yeast don't have to cleave the bond. This is how I start my candi sugar after having problems not doing it that way once. Always remained a syrup with no crystalization if I do the PC first.This most certainly is inverted sugar, as the heat and pH causes the sucrose to become glucose and fructose, thus, inverted.
From wiki: "Invert sugar syrup may also be produced without the use of acids or enzymes by thermal means alone: two parts granulated sucrose and one part water simmered for five to seven minutes will convert a modest portion to invert sugar."
but this is not how you make the syrup in this thread, not even close really. You add the DAP, there is no sucrose and you cook it for approx. an hour to an hour and a half.
My first batch just three days ago crystallized. Many folks in this thread have had THIS VERSION crystallize. If you follow the directions in the OP and reheat back up to softball at 240 you'll get a semi hard candy that will crystallize. If you don't reheat back to 240 you'll get syrup.
Of course there is sucrose. table sugar = sucrose. I've followed "sugar #5" to a tee many times, heating back up to 240 each time, and every time I get a thick syrup, that has not yet ever crystallized. Cooking it for an hour and a half is certainly adding heat and simmering, is it not? at least, sure looks like simmering when it's bubbling and cooking on a stove to me.
Edit: I've got some right next to me near my maple syrup, it's about 8 months old (last time I made the recipe). still a syrup, no crystals.
I just blew through 20 lbs of sugar and a jar of DAP yeast nutrientI don't recall any of these recipes having acid required to make them which is what is required to make inverted syrup/sugar but I could be wrong because I didn't make the #5.
DAP is not an acid. Dap is alkaline with a PH above 7.5.
Page 5
http://www.mosaicco.com/images/DAP_Reviewed_4_10_100441_snapshot.pdf
DAP provides Nitrogen for mailard reactions (non enzymatic browning) to occur. These occur between ~270F and ~320F. Another source of nitrogen is ammonium bicarbonate. It is a leaven used by professional bakers.
As DAP breaks down around ~270F it separates into two molecules of ammonium and dehydrate-phosphoric acid. So it provides both the nitrogen for browning and the acid for inversion.
As I have said I have done quite a few side by side experiments. In all my maillard syrups that were not double cooked I have experienced crystallization. That is about 4 jars. DAP breaks down into ammonium and phosphoric acid, so there is an acid to aid in inversion. It is just that the syrups do not get hot enough to invert much, with or without the acid. Corn syrup would provide the necessary matrix blocking sugars to stop this. In the double cooked syrup there has been no sign of crystallization to date. That is because more of the sugars have broken down and changed into maillard compounds.
Remember there is a big difference between what I am making, and an invert syrup or caramel syrup. They are all three different processes. I was focusing on a maillard syrup.
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