bobbytuck
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2010
- Messages
- 310
- Reaction score
- 51
I've had this problem on and off for the past two years: straight out of the fermenter, my beer tastes fine. I just brewed the blue moon clone here (for example) -- and out of the fermenter it was dry with a mild grainy taste. To me, this was fine, and I went ahead and bottled it. Two weeks later, it's got a weird, sweet "homebrew flavor." It carb'd up fine -- but the sweet taste is there -- and over the top prominent. It's not cidery -- and not even "hot" from alcohol -- it's straight up sweet and "homebrewy."
What's driving me crazy is that not every batch I bottle has this flavor. Only one out of every two or three batches. But it's not consistently consistent -- I can go three batches, and I don't get the taste. The only thing that's consistent is the sweet taste. I've made batches that don't have the taste -- and are superb (at least to me and beer drinking buddies). But every two batches or so I get the sweet taste -- and then I know all the bottles are ruined.
So, a few additional details:
- Mashed with my HERMS at 150F. Temp was stable for 90 mins. Mash-out @ 170F. I've checked my thermometers in my system, and all calibrate fine.
- Boiled wort for 90 mins. Cooled to 62F with cleaned and sanitized therminator.
- Pitch yeast @ 62F. For the batches that tend to be sweet, I'm using Safale-04 but for this blue moon clone, I used Safale-05. The packages are in date, but I've noted this as a possible culprit -- dry yeast. But wait -- there's more.
- Fermented @ 60F for 21 days with water in cooler and ice bottles. In dark basement. Swap out ice bottles morning and evening. Temp never gets above 61.5. Never below 59F.
- I've been using Cooper's carb tabs. This *might* be the culprit. However, I've had two recent batches with Cooper's carb tabs (2 tabs per 22oz. bottle) that are fine (with Safale-04!) (Date on carb tab bag -- all the bags I have -- are listed as Date of manufacture: 11/09) I store the carb tabs in my cool basement -- unopened bags.
- All equipment is cleaned and sanitized at bottling. (Cleaning day before in OxyClean free then santizing for 15 mins in StarSan. Bottles soaked the week before in OxyClean, sanitized the day of bottling with StarSan. I never use the same tubing twice.)
Anyway, I'm vexed. Could it be that the Safale-04 yeast is pooped out in the bottle and all I'm tasting is the sugar from the Coopers Carb Tabs? The sweet taste over the past two years is always the same. The beer out of fermenter is always fine -- I always pour myself a half-pint to sip after I've finished bottling. I'm avoiding bulk priming due to the possibility of moving beer from fermenter (Better Bottle) to bottling bucket -- but I think this is what I'm going to do from here on out.
I don't think it's an infection because the sweet taste usually shows up after three or four days. (And it's always the exact same taste. No cider, no butter -- just weirdly sweet.) Doesn't an infection usually take a while to develop? Is it possible to develop immediately in the bottle?
Next batch I plan to split up the batch with carb tabs in 6 bottles/Munson's tabs in 6 bottles/pouring a teaspoon of sugar in each of 6 bottles and leaving six bottles without any added sugar or carbonation whatsoever.
Any ideas? Would popping the caps and adding a grain or two of yeast (Safale-05, for example) help eat away that sugar?
Initially, I thought it was from mashing too high. Then I got a HERMs, and my mash temp has been exactly stable since dialing it in.
Then I thought it was from too high fermentation, so I got the 60 quart coolers and did the whole ice bottle thing.
I've had the taste with brand new bottles (22oz) and from washed bottles. Taste is always the same. Taste never goes away once it's in the bottle. I've tried a few I bottled last year with the taste -- and it's right there. Not stronger -- not weaker. It's exactly the same.
Help!
PS -- I bottle condition in a basement at 64F and in a closet at 75F. The only difference I've noticed is that the sweetness takes 2-3 days to develop in the closet and maybe 6-7 days in the basement. (Don't want to keg until I figure this out.)
WTF? !
PPS -- Are Cooper Carb tabs just plain crappy?
What's driving me crazy is that not every batch I bottle has this flavor. Only one out of every two or three batches. But it's not consistently consistent -- I can go three batches, and I don't get the taste. The only thing that's consistent is the sweet taste. I've made batches that don't have the taste -- and are superb (at least to me and beer drinking buddies). But every two batches or so I get the sweet taste -- and then I know all the bottles are ruined.
So, a few additional details:
- Mashed with my HERMS at 150F. Temp was stable for 90 mins. Mash-out @ 170F. I've checked my thermometers in my system, and all calibrate fine.
- Boiled wort for 90 mins. Cooled to 62F with cleaned and sanitized therminator.
- Pitch yeast @ 62F. For the batches that tend to be sweet, I'm using Safale-04 but for this blue moon clone, I used Safale-05. The packages are in date, but I've noted this as a possible culprit -- dry yeast. But wait -- there's more.
- Fermented @ 60F for 21 days with water in cooler and ice bottles. In dark basement. Swap out ice bottles morning and evening. Temp never gets above 61.5. Never below 59F.
- I've been using Cooper's carb tabs. This *might* be the culprit. However, I've had two recent batches with Cooper's carb tabs (2 tabs per 22oz. bottle) that are fine (with Safale-04!) (Date on carb tab bag -- all the bags I have -- are listed as Date of manufacture: 11/09) I store the carb tabs in my cool basement -- unopened bags.
- All equipment is cleaned and sanitized at bottling. (Cleaning day before in OxyClean free then santizing for 15 mins in StarSan. Bottles soaked the week before in OxyClean, sanitized the day of bottling with StarSan. I never use the same tubing twice.)
Anyway, I'm vexed. Could it be that the Safale-04 yeast is pooped out in the bottle and all I'm tasting is the sugar from the Coopers Carb Tabs? The sweet taste over the past two years is always the same. The beer out of fermenter is always fine -- I always pour myself a half-pint to sip after I've finished bottling. I'm avoiding bulk priming due to the possibility of moving beer from fermenter (Better Bottle) to bottling bucket -- but I think this is what I'm going to do from here on out.
I don't think it's an infection because the sweet taste usually shows up after three or four days. (And it's always the exact same taste. No cider, no butter -- just weirdly sweet.) Doesn't an infection usually take a while to develop? Is it possible to develop immediately in the bottle?
Next batch I plan to split up the batch with carb tabs in 6 bottles/Munson's tabs in 6 bottles/pouring a teaspoon of sugar in each of 6 bottles and leaving six bottles without any added sugar or carbonation whatsoever.
Any ideas? Would popping the caps and adding a grain or two of yeast (Safale-05, for example) help eat away that sugar?
Initially, I thought it was from mashing too high. Then I got a HERMs, and my mash temp has been exactly stable since dialing it in.
Then I thought it was from too high fermentation, so I got the 60 quart coolers and did the whole ice bottle thing.
I've had the taste with brand new bottles (22oz) and from washed bottles. Taste is always the same. Taste never goes away once it's in the bottle. I've tried a few I bottled last year with the taste -- and it's right there. Not stronger -- not weaker. It's exactly the same.
Help!
PS -- I bottle condition in a basement at 64F and in a closet at 75F. The only difference I've noticed is that the sweetness takes 2-3 days to develop in the closet and maybe 6-7 days in the basement. (Don't want to keg until I figure this out.)
WTF? !
PPS -- Are Cooper Carb tabs just plain crappy?