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Old 11-09-2009, 01:33 PM   #111
The Pol
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrewBeemer View Post
Pol; go back to 11-30-08, title by you as 3,500, 4,500 or 5,500W,
on page 6 posting #51 by you "(2) hots running to the SSR and out to the element". I've never seen a SSR that has connections for two hots or 240 volts, no way, a SSRD yes.

This was a question that I asked, which you made into a statement, and took out of context. I was asking those who had used SSRs how they worked, as I had never seen one in my life.

Reply #52 by bakins; "circuit #1 30A 240 V, 1 hot to element,1 hot to SSR".
This allows for a energized back feed and unsafe wiring practices plain and simple.

Again, you neglected to post his entire post, where he went on to say that he also incorporates a kill switch that cuts power to BOTH hot legs running to the element, which he uses for turning the element ON and OFF.

Pol reply #53, "meaning I can get by with the 25A SSR and heat sink as I cannot find a 6,500W that is low density I will be using a low density 5,500W element". That sure sounds like a 240 volt power to the element with a SSR not a SSRD or two SSRs for again a energized back fed system.

Again, out of context as this post was AFTER reading Bakins post which included the use if a kill switch to kill power to both hot legs to the element, no energized back feed,

stevehaun; reply #56 like bakins,"I run one hot directly to the element and the other hot is switched by the SSR.

Again, omitting the important part of the post, where he goes on to say that just like Bakins, he uses a kill switch to turn the element on and off, providing a means by which to have absolute control over the current in both energized legs to the element.

Smartest wiring system by CodeRage which is also his high electrical standards, "I use 2 SSRs on both sides of the 240 volt element".

My reply from above statements I didn't pull out of my ass, pulled from this forum. There are other wiring diagrams posted by other members that had some unsafe design builds.

But you did, very cleverly omit, the most important part of each post

I do not "because it appears you make things up, so that you can rant", those are your remarks Pol.

Exactly, see link below for what was actually said

For someone who at one time who stated they wanted nothing to do with electric heating in the past, called "PID crap" you sure have done a flip flop
over time. You do make my day and worth a laugh at times, keep it up.
Like I said, you make things up to rant. You made my question, into a statement, you also cleverly omitted where in those quoted posts, those same people also said that they use a kill switch to cut power to both energized legs. What are you trying to do?

If anyone would like to read this thread, it is a good read as a lot of great questions were asked and answered. Here is the link to the thread and page that BrewBeemer so eloquently quoted. As stated above, there is a lot more useful information there, which he neglected to post.

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/3500...89/index6.html
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Old 11-09-2009, 02:05 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by The Pol View Post
those same people also said that they use a kill switch to cut power to both energized legs.
That's been the most important part in most of these discussions. Using a DPST to kill power to the elements.

I could crawl through threads and find all the places where we said it, but I'm tired. But here are a couple by me:

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/my-s...ml#post1591091

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/low-...2/#post1588006
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Old 11-09-2009, 02:20 PM   #113
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Exactly Bakins, these switches are invaluable as they are a simple ON and OFF, no fiddling with the PID to stop the cycle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Pol View Post
That is sweet, that I can understand. I have been drawing up how I would divide my juice using distribution blocks.

Tell me, when using a PID and SSR for the 6500W element, will it go like this....

(2) hots running to the SSR and out to the element
(1) hot and (1) neutral running to the PID for control power
??????
Quote:
Originally Posted by bakins View Post
The way mine is wired is:
Subpanel:
Circuit #1 30A 240V - 1 hot to element, 1 hot to ssr. (element and pot grounded, of course). I use a DPST (dual pole, single throw) that can open/close both hots if needed. Quick boil-over protection, done with that pot, etc.
Circuit #2 - same as #1 to another pot.
Circuit #3 - 15A 120V - powers PID's (1 hot, 1 neutral) pumps etc.

Study. alot. I had just wired my basement (with a little guidance) that involved some 240V stuff. I read for about 2 months before I did it. (First task was adding a subpanel - hardest part was my first task).

It's not hard, you just need to be doubly sure about it.

Here's a thread with a good diagram:

My electric sculpture plans.. please help - BrewBoard

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Pol View Post
This is all helping A LOT! I was unsure as to how power was routed to the SSR and element.
I am installing a single throw, dual pole 40A breaker... Looks like I will be using a low density 5500W element as I cannot find a 6500W that is low density. Meaning that I can get by with the 25A SSR and heat sink.
Using the distribution block also makes the wiring inside the box much easier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehaun View Post
POL:
Like Bakins, I run one hot directly to the element and the other hot is switched by the SSR. I also recommend going with a 40 or 50 amp SSR - I remember reading somewhere (Crydom or Omega website??) to go bigger with the SSR. Definitely use a heatsink.
I also have double pole, single throw 30 amp switch to control both hot limbs going to the element. You will definitely want them to prevent boil overs and it is also a good safety feature.
One thing I did to save money was to use the same electronics to control both the HLT and BK. I don't use them at the same time so it did not make sense to make a separate system for both. I simply wired an outlet on my enclosure and plug in either the HLT or the BK.
Please read the entire post here people, what BB posted was a gross manipulation of the actual conversation...
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Old 11-09-2009, 02:28 PM   #114
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Personally, I don't think I trust myself to build a heatstick correctly, even with a GFI. I've never trusted a couple plastic buttons to save my life in case of catastrophe, and plunging an electrical device directly into a vat of liquid scares the sh*t out of me.

Are these valid concerns, or is there more danger with propane?

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Old 11-09-2009, 02:36 PM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bernerbrau View Post
Personally, I don't think I trust myself to build a heatstick correctly, even with a GFI. I've never trusted a couple plastic buttons to save my life in case of catastrophe, and plunging an electrical device directly into a vat of liquid scares the sh*t out of me.

Are these valid concerns, or is there more danger with propane?
Probably more dangerous driving a car, but...

Electricity will kill you pretty instantly... a burner may knock you out without proper ventilation and kill you, or burn your house down. Both you should be able to mitigate, and or see coming.

IMHO there is more danger in using electricity because generally there is less understanding and it doesnt mix well with liquids and SS.

I will say what I say about investing... only do what you are comfortable with, otherwise you will not be happy. Now, that is not to say you cannot get comfortable with electricity by doing some study and tapping resources here. Typically fear of something is based soely on lack of understanding, seek to understand and you may find that you are much more comfortable.
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Old 11-09-2009, 02:41 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by The Pol View Post
Now, that is not to say you cannot get comfortable with electricity by doing some study and tapping resources here. Typically fear of something is based soely on lack of understanding, seek to understand and you may find that you are much more comfortable.
I somehow have a minor in electrical engineering But I know enough about 120VAC to know that UL exists for a reason. Hell, we had Ivy League professors saying "no matter how safe you think your device is, don't plug it into the wall socket if you enjoy living."
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Old 11-09-2009, 02:43 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by bernerbrau View Post
I have a minor in electrical engineering But I know enough about 120VAC to know that UL exists for a reason. Hell, we had Ivy League professors saying "no matter how safe you think your device is, don't plug it into the wall socket if you enjoy living."
Sounds like propane is for you
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Old 11-09-2009, 02:45 PM   #118
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Sounds like propane is for you
I'd say so. Sorry to jack this thread. Carry on
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Old 11-09-2009, 02:48 PM   #119
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I'd say so. Sorry to jack this thread. Carry on
No worries, it was jacked long ago
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Old 11-09-2009, 03:05 PM   #120
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Why all the fuss about having an SSR on each leg of the 240v system? An SSR is a control element and not a hard switch... The only thing I can see is if Pol's SSR dies and shorts he'll probably just get a boil-over, kill the power to his element, and curse the integrated circuit people

Having an ssr on each leg just gives redundancy...

All this talk and the OP will probably end up using a 20amp switch as his control circuit :P

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