DIY Kettle Valve

I'm finally adding a ball valve to my boil kettle using basically the list of components put together by Fly Guy for the DIY cooler MLT. I'm having issues sourcing high temp o-rings. I was able to find regular garden hose gaskets which are working great on my MLT but my kettle will be at much higher temps. I am worried that the softer material will become too malleable at the boil temps.

My questions: does anyone use a standard garden hose-like o-ring on their boil kettle ball valves and if so, have they ever had any issues with leaks during the boil?

Thanks!

No. Pretty sure they are rubber. Do a Bobby test and put them in the oven at 250 degrees.

Did they melt?

You want silicone 210s I think is the number. 20 cents per.

BendBrewer said:

No. Pretty sure they are rubber. Do a Bobby test and put them in the oven at 250 degrees.

Did they melt?

You want silicone 210s I think is the number. 20 cents per.

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A test ring is going in the oven once I get home! I wonder how much force I'll crank down on them, as the pressure will up the temp the o-ring sees. Great idea though.

What vendor would have the silicon rings? McMaster? Also, would EPDM work?

Bargain Fittings. I bought a bunch of the first one, which is a very versatile, rubbber washer.



http://www.bargainfittings.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=36_42&product_id=105
http://www.bargainfittings.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=106

By rubber, you mean Silicone rubber, that's safe up to 400F or 500F depending on which item you pick... Very different than standard rubber.

I would advise only using silicone rubber where you need O-Rings in a kettle. You should make sure whatever you use is safe for the temperature range it will see. Since the ball valves are placed low in the pots, they could see temps above 212F (boiling point at sea level)...

I would test your setup at 300-350F for a solid hour, or 1-1/2 hours, to see how it holds up...

Do any B&M retailers carry these types of o-rings or am I forced to order online?

barrooze said:

I wonder how much force I'll crank down on them, as the pressure will up the temp the o-ring sees.

Click to expand...

No it won't. You might be a little hotter than the wort, as Golddiggie said, but the pressure isn't going to increase the temperature.

How many do you need? I bet I have 20 of them lying around.

I've seen the better O-Rings at the LHBS... I picked up 10 of them since it was cheaper per unit than buying just a few (needed at least 4, wanted to have some spares, just in case)... If you have a LHBS, or one that's close enough, go there. Or see if one of the online stores will ship via USPS so that you don't pay ~$10 for $1-$2 worth of hardware.

Called my LHBS and they don't carry anything like that. It's a pretty crummy store... just out of curiosity, would this type of rubber packing sheet work? http://goo.gl/lbzhg Could the hot temps leach some nasty chemicals out of the rubber?

What you need is a Weldless ball valve and they come with the oring.

BendBrewer said:

What you need is a Weldless ball valve and they come with the oring.

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This is what I have. I separated the orings for visual reasons only.

Since it doesn't list temperature tolerance level online, I would suspect it's not good above tap water temps. Might be ok for a mash tun, but I wouldn't use it in a kettle... Better to just order up the right item to do the job than risk having more issues by using something that isn't designed for higher temps.

You could just order from AHS and get it within a day or two via either UPS ground or USPS...

They sell the ones I picked up for $.49 each...

You could try using the o-rings that came with the kit... I did find they were not a perfect fit for my setup, which is why I picked up the thicker ones...

Is that a 1/2" or 3/8" assembly?? I have the 1/2" version... Works great, BTW...

I pieced all those components together at HD. It's a 1/2" setup. I was hoping to get installed tomorrow night for a brew on Sunday, but I think I'll just wait until I order from AHS again. I do like those 49 cent orings and I really don't want a leaky kettle for a PtE clone!

I would call AHS and see if they can do USPS shipping on 2-4 of the o-rings for you on the cheap. That way, you'll have them before the weekend and be able to get the kettle together in time.

barrooze said:

I pieced all those components together at HD. It's a 1/2" setup. I was hoping to get installed tomorrow night for a brew on Sunday, but I think I'll just wait until I order from AHS again. I do like those 49 cent orings and I really don't want a leaky kettle for a PtE clone!

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You don't want to go the HD route on this I don't think. Those things are brass. Go SS.

Does your LHBS carry weldless valves?

BendBrewer said:

You don't want to go the HD route on this I don't think. Those things are brass. Go SS.

Does your LHBS carry weldless valves?

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I'm using a brass ball valve assembly in both my kettle and mash tun. Of course, I didn't source any of it from HD, but from the LHBS... These are packaged (made by another company) as kettle conversion kits, not just your 'off the shelf' hardware... I would trust the setup designed/sold specifically for use in a brew kettle long before I would trust hardware from a hardware store.

Without knowing the alloy of the brass, you could have some issues with it. IF it's not designed to be in contact with boiling wort, then I'd probably not use it...

You could go the SS route, IF you wanted to... Just means you'll need to either return what you picked up already, or find another use for it. If money wasn't so tight when I was getting my valves, I probably would have just gone with SS ones... I still might switch over, but it's not in the near term plans, for me.

@Golddiggie, I just may call them up and see if they can help me out. Thanks for the idea!

@BendBrewer, I like brass. It goes great with my aluminum kettle. and I'm not returning those pieces!

barrooze said:

@Golddiggie, I just may call them up and see if they can help me out. Thanks for the idea!

@BendBrewer, I like brass. It goes great with my aluminum kettle. and I'm not returning those pieces!

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I would be concerned that they used lead in the manufacturing of the brass valves... It's used to make the metal pour into the molds better. There's an alternate method that uses silicon instead... I don't have any solid proof of this, but I would suspect that brass sold for use in kettles (or for brewing) are made with the silicon addition, instead of lead... But, it's not easy info to locate, so there's probably no way to actually KNOW...

If you have any concerns, go with SS and you won't need to worry at all...

I already built my MLT with brass fittings from HD. Pickled them and have no concern whatsoever about the lead. I've read that Palmer and other reputable sources have found that the amount of lead that could leach out of the brass is absolutely insignificant. I probably get more lead in my system by breathing Houston air everyday. Either way, I'd bet that the brass fittings that are sold at LHBS are virtually identical to those at HD. Does your LHBS have specs on the type of brass used?

Good points... I wish they did have actual alloy spec's for the valves they sell, or the manufacturer included them... I'll probably just go to SS if I decide to move to 2 or 3 piece valves... Until then, I don't have any desire/need to change the valves over, since they do a damned good job...

I would advise getting high temp teflon tape for the fittings though. Otherwise you could have leaks. Regular teflon pipe tape (I believe) isn't rated for the temperatures you'll be exposing it to.

You can remove surface lead from brass parts by mixing a solution of 1 part hydrogen peroxide (store bought) and two parts vinegar and soaking the part for6 minutes or so. You'll know it's done when it's all buttery yellow. If it starts turning dark or greenish, you soaked it too much and you are re-exposing lead.

Cryptochronolite said:

You can remove surface lead from brass parts by mixing a solution of 1 part hydrogen peroxide (store bought) and two parts vinegar and soaking the part for6 minutes or so. You'll know it's done when it's all buttery yellow. If it starts turning dark or greenish, you soaked it too much and you are re-exposing lead.

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This is the process I meant by "pickled". I plan on doing it again on this valve assembly. thank you for repeating it though, as I forgot the details of it!

Also, I was planning on using the ptfe tape used for gas pipes. Is that the high-temp stuff?

The tape I used came with the valve kits... It's a yellow-ish color, but no info is provided since it's just what they figure you'll need to do the job up right (plus some extra)... Just make sure that what you get is designed to withstand high temperatures. AHS has some listed as being rated for up to 450F... That would be safe to use (or it should be)...

Keep in mind, the items in contact with the sides of the pot will be exposed to more than just boiling temperatures. So being able to withstand at least 400F is a good idea...

Golddiggie said:

Keep in mind, the items in contact with the sides of the pot will be exposed to more than just boiling temperatures. So being able to withstand at least 400F is a good idea...

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Precisely the reason I want the high temp o-rings. I'm going to order them from AHS but am not planning on receiving them in time for my Sunday brew. I'll need grains for my next couple batches in the near future though and will just add them to the cart then.

Thanks for all the great input and feedback! I do appreciate all of it!

FYI: for o-rings that are inside the kettle (where they will be wet) you can use ones from your local Lowe's that are in the faucet repair aisle of the plumbing area. They are made by a company called Danco, and I spoke to someone from the company about them on the phone.

They are Buna-N, rated for 250*F, and certified for use in potable water systems.

He recommended not using them were they will get dry heat (like on the outside of the kettle).

They sell them at Lowe's in boxes of 10 for about $2 in all sorts of sizes.

passedpawn said:

Bargain Fittings. I bought a bunch of the first one, which is a very versatile, rubbber washer.

http://www.bargainfittings.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=36_42&product_id=105
http://www.bargainfittings.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=106

Click to expand...

Damn... I wish they had those in a slightly larger size. I use garden hose connectors all over the place on my system. No issues using the 'rubber' (whatever that means) gaskets that came with them, but I would love to have silicon ones instead just for the warm fuzzy feeling.

I wish I could recall who the manufacturer of these rings are (or from which store I bought them) but I got 5 or 6 each of what's in the picture. Quarter for reference (there wasn't $1.50 in change in the package) . Do either of these look like what you're referring to, Walker?

That's expensive for a silicone washer. Why not try buying one of those silicone cake pans or silicone pot mats and cut out what you need? Also some baby bottle nipples are silicone and are the right size.

I used a silicon cooking tray to make my washers just be careful when you cut them out not to tear the silicone, otherwise it works great. Been using them for two year's and no problems.

Very good suggestions. Wally world looks to be pricey for cooking gear made of silicone and i think my wife would kill me if I used one of my son's bottle nipples for brewing equipment.

I think 49 cents for an oring I can trust is a great deal.

orangehero said:

That's expensive for a silicone washer. Why not try buying one of those silicone cake pans or silicone pot mats and cut out what you need? Also some baby bottle nipples are silicone and are the right size.

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Holy crap that's a great idea! I'm gonna stop at Dollarama on my way home from work today and do just that! I looked all over the country and came up short on "real" orings..

Well my AHS order came in on Friday and I drilled the hole and installed the valve that night. Brewed with it last night and no leaks! The valve worked wonderfully! It was very nice not having to rack my beer from the kettle to the fermenter. Thanks again for all your help!

Here's a picture of the first leak test.

Nice. Just keep an eye on the handle cover. Depending on how you heat the water, that might start to get singed. I had that happen to me for the first time with yesterday's brew-day. I plan to cover it with something that can handle the heat better (almost direct flame hitting it).

Yoy do have more washers outside the kettle compared with mine.

Since I started transferring via the valve, I can't imagine going back to the old methods.

Very good point on the handle. I kept an eye on my flames yesterday and they don't get near the edge of my pot so I'll be safe for the most part, but definitely need to watch that.

Yea, I opted for the extra fender washers just to make sure that my fittings would make a tight seal with my nipple size.

During the transfer to the kettle, I was expecting a ton of hop particulate since the valve is near the bottom of the kettle (and I had about 14 oz in there) but I barely got any until the very very end of the xfer. I was stoked. I installed the valve so a half gallon would be left in the kettle after xfer. This apparently works great for getting it off the break and hops. I can't wait for my next brew! Now to decide what to make… hefe?