2-tier rig questions and feedback

I'm in the process of designing/building a 2-tier brew rig, to replace my current system based on step stools and turkey burners.

I'd like to keep it to 1 pump, which I already have, which means a 2-tier system seems the logical choice. My idea, which is based on what I do today, is to have the HLT (keggle) and the MLT (70 quart cooler) on one, higher level, and have the BK (20g stainless pot with a return port) on a lower level.

This is contrary to most designs I've seen, which have the HLT alone at the higher level, and the mash tun and the boil kettle both on the lower level.

My thought, when designing this way is that I'd rather not pump the unboiled wort right out of the MLT.

One potentional issue with having the MLT and BK on the same level is suction, which could be solved by a grant. But, my design doesn't need one.

Another issue is that I'd rather not have unboiled wort in my lines prior to running the boiling wort through the recirc process. Recirculating while still boiling should sanitize these lines, so it isn't a deal breaker, but I'd rather not have to worry about that at all.

The only downside I can think of is that having the MLT at the higher level might make for a more difficult time mashing in since it will be elevated. But I don't think it's going to be so high as to be clumsy. It should be about 36" which is the same height as kitchen countertops, and plenty of people including myself mash in with our MLT on a kitchen counter.

Is there anything else I should be thinking about with respect to this?


Thanks

I think either way will work for you, as stated both ways have + and -'s.
I ended up building a single teir with two pumps for the simple reason of back issues.
I didn't want to be moving anything around although right now it's not too much of an issue but later in life I know my back will be my limiting factor.
With the BK low you are going to have to pump to the fermenter. Not much of an issue, just a thought.
I don't mix my pumps, meaning one is water only (HLT recerc, HLT>MLT) and the other pump is sugars (MLT recerc, MLT>BK, BK recerc).
Anyway, it's just my thoughts.
I really mulled it over for years before I ended up building a stand, I really wanted a three teir garvity system cuz that's how I did it for years with my coolers and fly sparging.
But over the years I realized it's not how I'm doing it now that I should be planning a stand, it's how I want to do it 10 years from now.
Good luck thinking it through and keep us posted on what you decide on and how it developes from there.

Wahoo said:

The only downside I can think of is that having the MLT at the higher level might make for a more difficult time mashing in since it will be elevated. But I don't think it's going to be so high as to be clumsy. It should be about 36" which is the same height as kitchen countertops, and plenty of people including myself mash in with our MLT on a kitchen counter.

Is there anything else I should be thinking about with respect to this?


Thanks

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That's the only thing I can think of as well. You'd have to stand on a stepstool or something to mash in, and to stir, unless you're tall.

I have a single tier, and I lowered mine a bit just so I wouldn't have to stand on a step stool to stir or when I was adding the grain. But I'm short, much shorter than most other brewers.

Yooper said:

That's the only thing I can think of as well. You'd have to stand on a stepstool or something to mash in, and to stir, unless you're tall.

I have a single tier, and I lowered mine a bit just so I wouldn't have to stand on a step stool to stir or when I was adding the grain. But I'm short, much shorter than most other brewers.

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i agree with the above posters - you would have to stand on a step stool to mash in...youd also have to lower the mash tun (Full of wet grains) from a higher height. those two things were enough for me to build my two tier with the mash tun on the same level as the boil kettle. I do have to pump from mash tun to boil kettle, but i can slow the output significantly enough where it doesnt matter.

one thing I would change is that I lowered my boil kettle and mash tun too low to the ground (i am only 5'8") - only 12" off the ground. I wish I had gone closer to 24" or more so I could have mounted my pumps. Right now they sit on the ground..which works, but makes for a messy set up. Already planning out my next stand, as you can tell. Wish I would have thought about it more (and planned it more) the first time. As it is now, I can't do any welding for awhile (pregnant and due in september) and I foresee myself being too busy for awhile after that. So hopefully next summer I can work on making a new stand. until then though, I do love the stand for what it is.

All good points. BrewingChemist, I also was going to have my BK 12" off the ground, am now rethinking that.

I run a single tier (MLT and BK on same level) with one pump. So, like the other poster above, I pump directly from my mash tun. It's no big deal, just throttle your pump output back to keep the flow slower. Having said that, it will take a couple brews to dial that in. I've also taken to throwing in a handful of rice hulls - not necessary but it makes things a little smoother I think. Anyway, I also run pre-boil wort through my pump/hoses, which is not a problem. It seems like a person would want to sanitize the pump/hoses with boiling wort anyway, so it's not really an extra step. I've never had an issue with sanitation doing this.

One last thing I'll say is that I really (really) like having my BK at a height that allows for gravity draining to the fermenter. I have my burner on cinder blocks and that gives me just enough height to drain to a bucket. I then designed the rest of stand to be at that same height, which is also a good height for easy mash-in (without a step stool). I know a lot of folks pump to their fermenters so it obviously works well, but I really like just opening the valve at the end of the brew and draining directly to the fermenter. I'm sure I'd get used to pumping if I had designed my system that way, but I thought I'd mention it anyway. Just something to consider.

Hope the design/build goes well. Cheers.

Wahoo said:

All good points. BrewingChemist, I also was going to have my BK 12" off the ground, am now rethinking that.

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Yeah - I am considering building a wood platform in the interim to make it higher off the ground and being able to mount my pump. I do pump into my fermenters - run it through my cfc chiller, back to the bk until it all drops to temp then open full bore and run into the fermenter (i do bend the tube into the fermenter which creates a little extra back pressure and aerates the wort very nicely!)

good luck with your build! having a brewstand made a huge difference in my brew day for sure!

My fermenter is in my basement, and I brew right outside the bilco door leading into there, so I can gravity feed even if the kettle is close to the ground. I have a 20' silicone line that I use to drain the kettle.

Wahoo said:

My fermenter is in my basement, and I brew right outside the bilco door leading into there, so I can gravity feed even if the kettle is close to the ground. I have a 20' silicone line that I use to drain the kettle.

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That's awesome. Nice work.

" It's no big deal, just throttle your pump output back to keep the flow slower."

NathPowe what pump do you have thats has adjustable flow, i am looking at the Chugger pump with the stainless steel head. But i dont think thats adjustable.

thanks

BYOB said:

" It's no big deal, just throttle your pump output back to keep the flow slower."

NathPowe what pump do you have thats has adjustable flow, i am looking at the Chugger pump with the stainless steel head. But i dont think thats adjustable.

thanks

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Add a ball valve to the output to slow the flow. Thats what I did! Good luck with your build and make sure to post a build thread!

BYOB said:

" It's no big deal, just throttle your pump output back to keep the flow slower."

NathPowe what pump do you have thats has adjustable flow, i am looking at the Chugger pump with the stainless steel head. But i dont think thats adjustable.

thanks

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^ What this guy said. Just add a ball valve to the *output* of the chugger pump. You don't want to restrict input flow to the pump. Anyway, I used a two-piece on mine. You can adjust the flow, or stop the flow all together (useful for hose changes) without any negative affects to the pump. It's handy-dandy. Another useful addition to a pump setup is an air purge/bleed valve. I used one of these guys on a "T" fitting and put it directly after the pump, before the flow-control valve. Makes priming very convenient.

Cheers.

Wahoo said:

Another issue is that I'd rather not have unboiled wort in my lines prior to running the boiling wort through the recirc process. Recirculating while still boiling should sanitize these lines, so it isn't a deal breaker, but I'd rather not have to worry about that at all.

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I've been thinking through same issues and am leaning to HLT up, MLT/BK down. I have seen this issue raised here and on other threads. I don't understand the concern. Aren't you going to use your pump to recirculate the mash? It will be unsoiled wort when you do that.


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I will not use the pump to recirc the mash. Vorlauf just like I do today, with a pitcher!

Wahoo said:

I will not use the pump to recirc the mash. Vorlauf just like I do today, with a pitcher!

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OK -- so you will not be converting to a direct fire MLT or RIMS or HERMS at some point during the life of this stand? All those require mash recirculation.

I got the pump (before designing the stand) and am using it to recirculate in my mash tun, and do like how it works vs the pitcher I used to use.

I can't see going to RIMS or HERMS, I'm very happy with the way infusion mashing has worked for me for many years. Direct fire MLT? Maybe, but at that point I'd have to do more than a little re-designing of the rig.