What is more cost effective?

So as I'm getting more into brewing and hoping to brew a lot more this year, it brings up the question in my mind... which is more cost effective? Natural gas stoves or propane outdoor burners?

I currently have a natural gas stove, but I am just trying to see if it is going to be more economical for me to get myself a propane burner and a propane tank.

I can't answer the question directly, but I can ask you this instead... What are your goals? Do you intend to do extract brews or transition to partial mash or all grain batches? Do you hope to boil the entire volume (this is ideal) or a partial volume and top up with water? Do you intend to brew 5gallon / 20L batches? Tell us more about your plans... What are you doing currently?

Gas prices from your local utilities are always cheaper because they have an underground supply line already at your house...when you go to propane, somebody has to deliver it and there is an additional mark-up for a retailer, not too mention the crisis of running out of gas in your propane tank and having to move it back to your stove. But price it out from your utility company and your local propane dealer, I would be shocked if the utility company wasnt way cheaper.

My goals are to switch to partial mash, then possibly all-grain. I continue with 5 gallon batches and eventually boil the entire volume. I am currently working on my own partial mash recipes before I brew them.

+1, interesting question, a quick search on the internets "propane vs natural gas cost" brought up several sites and statistics pointing to propane being some 30 - 50% higher in cost vs natural gas, and this is buying in bulk quantity (as a home heated with propane would do, large outside tank filled once or twice a year), not the small tanks we use for brewing, which I am sure are a magnitude higher in cost. Our homebrew club uses a basement setup with natural gas, we brew twice a month (15 gal batches) and the home owner has not noticed a significant increase in his natural gas bill over what he normally uses for heating, cooking, and hot water.

EDIT: Just found our calculations for natural gas cost per brewing session:
gas:
100,000 btu/hour burner @ 3 hours per brew session = 300,000 btu = 3 therms
3 therms @ $0.5/therm = $1.50; x 2 brew sessions per month = $3.00 for 30 gallons of beer production per month.

I'd much rather use NG since the cost is much lower per BTU... BUT... my question was intended to get you thinking. It might be much more convenient to brew on a turkey burner to get your entire volume boiling. Then you need to decide which is better, cost per batch OR convenience.

I currently have Propane tank running to my burners, but have NG piped to the house (rented - and no good way to get the NG to my burners). The GOOD news is that you could plumb a NG feed line and tap into that system to run burners in the garage. If you can do THAT, you're in!

. .. and I think a 20 lb propane tank will yield 36,000 BTUs, what does it cost to fill one of those?

Yeah, propane is probably going to be more expensive, but it can be tough to get 6+ gallons to a boil on your stove (and that's assuming it can handle that weight). For partial mashes I like to boil 2.5-3 gal on my stove, then add the extract at the end. All-grain you can do 2 partial boils on the stove, but at that point it would probably be easier to get the propane and go to full boil.

The other alternative is to go electric. I should caution you that it can be very dangerous if you don't know what you're doing and should have an electrician check over your plans/set it up for you, but there's a nice subforum on here with some great-looking rigs. If you've got the ability and the room to add to your panel, it could be a third option for you.

my NG stove wont boil a full 5Gal. Whats a good NG burner for getting a good boil?

I believe NG burns hotter than propane, so you'd get a faster, more efficient boil using NG. That and the price is lower for NG. If you had a high-BTU burner that was outfitted for NG usage, definitely do that. If not, just do propane as it will take forever to boil 6 gallons on a stovetop burner.

It really depends if your stove can bring it to a full boil. Mine fortunately can, but it wreaks havoc on my kitchen, especially my walls

barrooze said:

I believe NG burns hotter than propane, so you'd get a faster, more efficient boil using NG. That and the price is lower for NG. If you had a high-BTU burner that was outfitted for NG usage, definitely do that. If not, just do propane as it will take forever to boil 6 gallons on a stovetop burner.

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It's actually the opposite. Propane has more BTU but it's per-BTU cost is also higher.

If you can use an outdoor burner like a garage or backyard then definitely go with the outdoor burner. They can get your boil going 2-3 times faster and you will not make a sticky mess in your kitchen.

The initial cost may be a bit but in the long run you will probably be happier you did. My Bayou Classic SQ-14 was only $50.00 and I use the propane tank from my BBQ.

Just my opinion!

Thanks for all the input everyone! Looks like I have some serious thinking to do!

Some of the propane burners can be converted over to natural gas too. So you could get one that has the option, start with propane, then convert it over to natural gas if you want, later.

My NG stove struggles to get a 5 gallon batch (6.5-7 gallons pre-boil) volume up to a boil. It also has a hard time maintaining the boil. My propane burner has zero issue getting the same volume (or more) up to a boil and maintaining it. I easily shaved over an hour off of my brew time by switching to the propane burner.

Once I'm in a house, I will look at both options. I know having your gas grill on NG makes it so much easier to use it. For one thing, you don't need to worry about running out of gas part way through cooking something. That would probably be the single largest advantage to going with NG over LPG... Unless you get a large LPG tank beside your home...

dcp27 said:

It really depends if your stove can bring it to a full boil. Mine fortunately can, but it wreaks havoc on my kitchen, especially my walls

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What does it do to your walls?

Yeah...we have a really nice NG stove, with two "power burners" in the front that put out some pretty serious flames (at least for a stovetop). Still...getting 5 gallons to boil on that thing is a long process at best, and the weight of it slightly bent my cast iron grates. SWMBO was not pleased!

Cost more or not, the propane burner has made my life a lot easier!

BrewThruYou said:

What does it do to your walls?

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makes them sweat and turn yellow. its not that bad, but its becoming progressively more noticeable

A typical "20 lb" propane will contain 15-17 lbs of propane gas upon exchange and cost $20. I can usually get 4-5 brew sessions of 5 gallons per propane tank using the SQ14. Thus, it is about $4 per brew session using propane. If I take my tank to be refilled at a local station I can get a full 20 lbs for $17. This drops the cost to about $3 per batch.

Natural gas will be much cheaper but you have to have the gas line and the correct style of burner. I would prefer to do NG but we don't have that outlet yet and although propane is more expensive it is easy to transfer to my garage and driveway.

The initial cost of trying propane can be as low as $40-$100 depending on the style of burner and tank you want to use. These are also easy to resell or buy on Craig's List.