Not good not good at all

Hello everyone
Ok so my buddy was brag'n for three days about this killer Octoberfest brew he brewed. To a point where I was just as exited to try it as he was. So I go over for a fire pit party. I have a 12er of my brown ale and picked up some 90min. I scored. Anyways here he comes all happy and full of life with a case of his brew . The first taste of it I was like WTF is this? It was awful ! It tasted like I would imagine a female skunks who's pregnant piss to taste like . It was awful! It was sour it had to be infected or something but it had a head on it so I don't know. But he taste it and Is like. "ahhhhh now that's a beer right man?" now he was so proud of it. I couldn't take it. So I put my glass down and act like I'm adjusting myself and kick the glass over and spills. I'm saved right? Nope he hands me another. So I'm like ok maybe the bottle wasn't cleaned maybe I had a bad one whatever. Nope wrong again still down right awful. He drinks another and I'm telling you hes either the biggest liar I ever met the greatest actor or he truely loves it . So I get up walk around all awhile spilling it out of my glass. As he's slap'n his self on the back. Now before you go crazy on me I'm not like this. I'm a good guy and people like me. I just didnt have the heart to tell him it was awful in front of all of our friends and wives (our other friends are bud drinkers I know I know but I still lobe em)
Anyways I was glad I brought my beer. But here's my question how do you tell someone their beer is awful without hurting them?

Tell him that it is a tough style to brew and that you are interested more in his recipe and process to see what could be improved.

First of all, that was the hardest paragraph I've ever had to read in my life.

Second... you can't tell someone their beer sucks without hurting them. You either live with the fact that they have horrible beer and will force it on you, or you tell them how you feel.

I'm not saying you need to tell the guy "man....your beer blows." But, if you can pick out flaws, ask him about them. If he's a homebrewer, he should appreciate honest feedback. I have a keg on tap right now that I had all sorts of issues with during brew day. I think it tastes horrible, and I won't drink it, but all of my friends and family tell me it's amazing. The worst part about people saying that is that I know they're lying so they don't hurt my feelings. If I say the beer sucks, feel free to also say it sucks. I had ONE person tell me how they really felt, and I appreciated it.

Look at it this way... You can NOT say anything and keep drinking his bad beer. Or, you can say something, and help him to make better beer. In the end, you win, and you don't have to drink bad beer.

Give it to him straight... If no one tells him the truth, he'll always think it's the way it's supposed to taste. I'd rather have someone tell me the truth about my brew than try to protect my feelings and crap.

If he makes other styles that are good, then it's just the style he brewed this time (or type of brew). If most of his stuff is of the same caliber, then he's doing something really wrong. As mentioned, find out how he made the batch and look for where it went sideways (or got the skunk preggy)...

Suthrncomfrt1884 said:

First of all, that was the hardest paragraph I've ever had to read in my life.

Second... you can't tell someone their beer sucks without hurting them. You either live with the fact that they have horrible beer and will force it on you, or you tell them how you feel.

I'm not saying you need to tell the guy "man....your beer blows." But, if you can pick out flaws, ask him about them. If he's a homebrewer, he should appreciate honest feedback. I have a keg on tap right now that I had all sorts of issues with during brew day. I think it tastes horrible, and I won't drink it, but all of my friends and family tell me it's amazing. The worst part about people saying that is that I know they're lying so they don't hurt my feelings. If I say the beer sucks, feel free to also say it sucks. I had ONE person tell me how they really felt, and I appreciated it.

Look at it this way... You can NOT say anything and keep drinking his bad beer. Or, you can say something, and help him to make better beer. In the end, you win, and you don't have to drink bad beer.

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I know right? I write a long ass paragraph ! ... He was just so proud of it. Im a noob myself and it would kill me if someone said my beer was awful. But I also know when my beer is not good.

Regardless of what you do later, you did the right thing by not embarrassing him in front of everyone. Way to take one (two!) for the team.

I would of poured it out on the fire.... Kidding.

I think you did the right thing, but instead of taking the second bottle, which you OBVIOUSLY didn't like. You should of told him you brought your own beer and weren't really in the mood for that style.
Later telling him you think he missed the mark.

If you are friends, he can take the comments.

Have you tasted any of your friends other beer? If they were good maybe you should ask him what he did differently, maybe it's something he was going for? I don't remember any sour octoberfest beers but keep it mind everyones tastes are different and one person's awefull swill may be the next person's heaven in a bottle. I am curious what everyone else at the party said, have you talked to them about it? If it's truly awefull and no-one says anything to him about it, you're not doing him any favors but we ultimately need to brew for our own tastes.

COLObrewer said:

Have you tasted any of your friends other beer? If they were good maybe you should ask him what he did differently, maybe it's something he was going for? I don't remember any sour octoberfest beers but keep it mind everyones tastes are different and one person's awefull swill may be the next person's heaven in a bottle. I am curious what everyone else at the party said, have you talked to them about it? If it's truly awefull and no-one says anything to him about it, you're not doing him any favors but we ultimately need to brew for our own tastes.

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Yes we all tasted his other beer...that's why we brought our own. And I love Octoberfest style of beers . So I couldn't use the old "I'm not into this style" .
My other buddy and I so wanted to tell him but he was so proud of it. He was even thinking of entering it into a octoberfest contest. That's when I was "shoooo now I don't have to tell him" but I think that will break him even more.
I think next time I'm going to help him the best I can. I think I'll tell him that wasn't a "true fest beer... Let's try something different" all my other friends say I need to tell him... But it's like telling your sister her breath stinks at her wedding.

That's a tough one! If he would have said, "What do you think of it?" then you could have been honest but it's hard when he loves it and it's bad.

I have had a LOT of bad homebrews over the years, though. Sometimes judging competitions, and sometimes "in person". I think it's due to something I've been calling the "ugly baby syndrome". You know how you see some terribly ugly babies, but the parents think it's the most beautiful baby in the whole world and gush over its beauty? I think the same is true for brewers, in a way. They made it, and they think it's fantastic even though it's a really bad beer- their "ugly baby".

If he enters it in competition, he'll get feedback from judges. Either that will help him learn to pick up flaws, or he'll complain to you about the bad judging since you liked the beer too!

The only guy who ever told me he didn't like my beer is a loser.

But you gotta tell him - or just tell him it's not your particular style of choice. He'll get the point.

Personally I would take a big swig, then spray it all over the place as I spit it out as fast as I could, then make a huge deal of getting something else in my mouth to wash away the taste. If I could find some sandpaper to rub on my tongue, it would be the ideal tool to get my message across.

Well, there are a lot of beers that are regarded highly that I think taste bad. Is it at all possible it just had flavors you didn't like?

I've also made a couple batches that I think had diacetyl. I'm no tasting expert, yet, but from what I hear it tastes like I'm pretty sure that's what was going on. I explained the flavor diacetyl gives off to my wife and a friend and had them taste it again, after having tasted it without saying anything, and they said they couldn't taste a buttered popcorn flavor. To me it was the most noticeable thing right away, but to them it wasn't there. They said that they really liked the beer. So maybe I'm super sensitive to diacetyl flavor or maybe they taste it differently and think it's yummy. Hard to say, but where I noticed a major flaw they tasted something good.

I'd let this one go and if he consistently makes bad beers you need to level with him and say that they're not so good. Use it as a learning experience for both of you to try to nail down what he can do to get better.

Get the recipe from him, say you want to brew it yourself, and invite him to your place for the brew day. If your technique is superior he'll pick up on it and apply it the next time he brews.

Have you tried any of his other beers?

Just be honest. Pull him aside and quietly say: "Dude I think you have an infection"

This is my biggest fear as a brewer, that I am going to force a homebrew onto a friend/family member that I love but that they hate.

For this reason I try not to hype any of my beers, I simply explain what it is, what I used in brewing it (if applicable) and let them know they are free to try it if they like. I never ask them what they think of it or if they want another, I let them give me any feedback they want to give and ask for another/grab another themselves if they like it.

I've had people tell me they weren't fans of a certain beer or that they love it and I am ok with both responses. I can also tell pretty quickly if someone likes the beer or not by how quickly they drink it and if they reach for another.

Its kind of like telling someone their kids are ugly. Everybody likes their own beer. I have recently retried some of my earlier brews and come to the conclusion they are not as great as I first thought. Objectivity grows with experience. When he's matured enough in the craft to accept constructive critiques, he'll, ask. Certainly entering it into a contest would provide objective feedback. Of course, that feedback could well be that it is true to style and you just don't like the style. Personally, I got into the hobby because all the commercial brews tend to taste alike. I brew for me. Very few people have tried my beers and I'm just fine with that.

Tell him don't spare his feelings. If he's truly going to be a brewer, then he needs to take criticism. If you tell me my beer sucks, that's just one reason for me to try harder the next time.

So.... you didn't like my beer and decided to tell the internet instead of telling me?

huge1s said:

So.... you didn't like my beer and decided to tell the internet instead of telling me?

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Yeah sorry man....
Like I said I love Octoberfest so I couldn't tell him it's not my style.
His kids are ugly real ugly. But he knows that . I think he's try'n to compensate with the beer.
I just txt'd him asking for the recipe and It was put together by my favorite guys at our local homebrew shop and these guys there wouldn't allow him to make a recipe. I told him to take a bottle there and have them try it. But I still think he add'd something to it to make it a pumpkin flavor and it turned out wrong. The sad part is when telling me where he got everything. He wanted to make sure it was a secret like "look man this is my recipe that I got from those guys at keystone so don't be telling everyone where I got it"
It's a sad sad day.

That's a terrible situation to be in. Personally, I WANT people to tell me the truth about my beer. Does it have diacetal? Astringency? Not enough hops?

But it's different if he already thinks he's done a great job. Then you're basically telling him that his beer sucks and he has bad taste!

I don't think there is anything wrong with saying it's not good for you, though. I'd let him know there were some flavors that you sense that you don't like.

I think you should encourage him to enter competitions. That way he can get unbiased tastings. Or he can be validated.

Not everyone likes the same things, so maybe he just really enjoys the flavors in that beer. Nothing wrong with that. But if everyone else bring their own beer because they don't like his beer, I think you'd be doing him a favor by helping him. Somehow.

Find out more about his recipe or his brewing method and see if you can encourage him to make the small changes that will likely correct the problem.

Gameface said:

Well, there are a lot of beers that are regarded highly that I think taste bad. Is it at all possible it just had flavors you didn't like?

I've also made a couple batches that I think had diacetyl. I'm no tasting expert, yet, but from what I hear it tastes like I'm pretty sure that's what was going on. I explained the flavor diacetyl gives off to my wife and a friend and had them taste it again, after having tasted it without saying anything, and they said they couldn't taste a buttered popcorn flavor. To me it was the most noticeable thing right away, but to them it wasn't there. They said that they really liked the beer. So maybe I'm super sensitive to diacetyl flavor or maybe they taste it differently and think it's yummy. Hard to say, but where I noticed a major flaw they tasted something good.

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THIS guy has it right. To my knowledge, I haven't ever tasted anything like buttered popcorn in a beer. I *do* somewhat frequently get the bandaid/burnt plastic. I had a local craft Octoberfest about a year ago that I bought at the store, brought it home, and poured down the drain because of the bandaid flavor. My first homebrew had that same flavor and I hated it (though it faded eventually) yet all my friends and my wife said it was fine even after I told them *I* didn't even like it and what flavor to look for. This same plastic flavor showed up again in another local craft brewer's beer at their taproom -- I could barely drink it, yet other people would get tastings of it and end up buying a whole glass or more, and again my friends and my wife who were with me didn't pick up that nastiness at all.

It's pretty obvious to me that there are certain people who just don't detect certain phenols and compounds -- I'm *glad* as a homebrewer that I'm sensitive to that bandaid flavor so that I won't unknowingly inflict it upon anyone. Though there are a ton of other off-flavors that I can't say I've ever detected in a beer, so I guess it's possible I *can't* taste those and have been foisting horrid beer on people after all. The subjectivity of the senses is pretty scary.

All depends on your friendship with the guy.

Some like IPA's with full aroma of hops, where as I call that "like drinking potpourri." Where as if I like a red ale, or a wheat ale, some people would call that flavored water or simple beer.

I would just say that it's not for you. You don't need to elaborate any more than that. Let that soak in a little. If he asked you to elaborate, tell him the next day or day after that.

I'm lucky in the regard that my brother and friends that are brewing are all new, and accept criticism as well as compliments. We are refining our technique still, so we are still formulating what we expect out of a beer. If he's been brewing a while, I can see how that might be harder for him to hear he's not there yet.

Homercidal said:

That's a terrible situation to be in. Personally, I WANT people to tell me the truth about my beer. Does it have diacetal? Astringency? Not enough hops?

But it's different if he already thinks he's done a great job. Then you're basically telling him that his beer sucks and he has bad taste!

I don't think there is anything wrong with saying it's not good for you, though. I'd let him know there were some flavors that you sense that you don't like.

I think you should encourage him to enter competitions. That way he can get unbiased tastings. Or he can be validated.

Not everyone likes the same things, so maybe he just really enjoys the flavors in that beer. Nothing wrong with that. But if everyone else bring their own beer because they don't like his beer, I think you'd be doing him a favor by helping him. Somehow.

Find out more about his recipe or his brewing method and see if you can encourage him to make the small changes that will likely correct the problem.

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I would want to know. I personally hate all my beer so far, but everyone who has tried them has raved... So all my friends are LIARS!

Just send him a link to this thread...

Pushing a bad beer on a friend is one of my biggest fears as a home brewer. This is one of the reasons I have two of what I will call "taste test dummies" being my father and a good friend of mine who both of which would have no problem telling me my beer sucks.

One thing I have also noticed though from people, my taste testers and others, that occasionally I have made beers and other fermented beverages that I was not a big fan of and even told people that but they absolutely loved them and have even asked me to make a few of these again. So I guess, just because someone says they like a beer that you hate doesn't necessarily mean they are lying.

The guy said he brewed an Oktoberfest. The OP said it tasted sour. Sorry, but that is not supposed to be there in an Oktoberfest. It must be infected. It happens. Been there, done that.

just freaking tell him. What are you a girl? worried about feelings?
You should man up and so should he.
You didn't like his beer. Its simple, if he wants to know why tell him. Otherwise keep your nose out of his brew.

Bernie Brewer said:

The guy said he brewed an Oktoberfest. The OP said it tasted sour. Sorry, but that is not supposed to be there in an Oktoberfest. It must be infected. It happens. Been there, done that.

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This is the truth. You REALLY ought to find a way to tell him. Usually there is an easy fix for anything in homebrewing. The hardest part is usually figuring out what causes it.

well I've only made one batch of beer so far... A german wheat... & I hate it but my wife and friends loved it (she said it tastes like Bud & has dranken? Most of it...) but now that it's been in the bottles for 6months + she says "it tastes to Dark"... I've as of yet to try it recently as it made me naseaus before...

but I huess I have been like "here try this... I made it!" so I think they might of lied if they didn't like it... Think I'll call the wife & tell her to put a couple in the fridge...

a lot of beers taste like crap when compared to a 90min.

Maybe you should have let him try your 90min and check his reaction.If his face gets all skrinchy like,he may have a total different calibration on his buds!

I've only made 6 batches, and the one I'm drinking now I wouldn't give to my friends (or anyone). It's beer, it taste "ok", but it's not of the style... so I won't kid myself and think I could pass it off on people I know know beer. And if I don't know the style, I buy it and get a sense of what it should be like.

That said, you've been given some real good advice above... professional and courteous honesty being the best advice... if he cares about his beer, he'll listen to a critique of ingredients and recipe... if not, well, always keep your glass full of what you brought when at his abode.

And just for good measure... if his other beer is just as bad, then there's something else he's doing. Why not recommend a driveway brew party... let him see what you and your other buds do and maybe he'll figure something out.

DarkPhyre said:

just freaking tell him. What are you a girl? worried about feelings?
You should man up and so should he.
You didn't like his beer. Its simple, if he wants to know why tell him. Otherwise keep your nose out of his brew.

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Believe me dude I have no problem telling someone to their face...but this was a party. And he was so damn proud of it. He was just pushing it on us like it was black tar heroin

pietaster said:

a lot of beers taste like crap when compared to a 90min.

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This is true my friend ...this is true

unionrdr said:

I can't understand that,if it really was sour & down right nastie,how come he thought it was the drink of the Gods? Even the brewer shouldn't be that blind.

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My point exactly ...

unionrdr said:

Has your friend ever been known to like Belgian sours? Maybe the off flavor tasted like those to him?

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No I don't know really . You gotta meet him I guess . He's a goofy Tom hanks. And he's always try'n to one up people... You know what screw him the more I talk about him the more I don't like him.
The beer was bad...it was beyond sour. I've had the popcorn flavor and the band aid flavor ... It was so bad I wish it tasted like that.

ByramMike said:

I've only made 6 batches, and the one I'm drinking now I wouldn't give to my friends (or anyone). It's beer, it taste "ok", but it's not of the style... so I won't kid myself and think I could pass it off on people I know know beer. And if I don't know the style, I buy it and get a sense of what it should be like.

That said, you've been given some real good advice above... professional and courteous honesty being the best advice... if he cares about his beer, he'll listen to a critique of ingredients and recipe... if not, well, always keep your glass full of what you brought when at his abode.

And just for good measure... if his other beer is just as bad, then there's something else he's doing. Why not recommend a driveway brew party... let him see what you and your other buds do and maybe he'll figure something out.

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He's had my beer that's what got him into it. I've made an amber ale and gave him the recipe that he thought he could add cinnamon to. This is what I'm dealing with.