Apfelwein bottling ... Using fruit juice concentrate instead of priming sugar?

Hey HBT,

I was at the local hbs today and told the owner I was bottling an edworts apfelwein tonight. He suggested I use frozen fruit juice concentrate instead of priming sugar. So I've purchased that and am about to bottle.

Question:


Is the frozen concentrate sterile or do I need to worry about boiling or doing something with the concentrate before adding? Can I just dump it in and stir until dissolved? Worried about aerating my apfelwein!


Thanks, standing by

Photo

One more

I would let the concentrate thaw at room temperature and then gently mix it in. You won't want to stir too much and introduce more oxygen than necessary.

Well I just threw it in the bottling bucket 1/2 way through the siphoning process. Didn't even stir it. Got 50 bottles exactly. Hope it is even better chilled/carbed

You do realize you are going to be at about 3.2 volumes of CO2 if you used that whole thing for 5 gallons?

That would add an extra bit of appley goodness, but I see no reason to not just use sugar. I mean, too much sugar added to a beer will contribute a cidery flavor, would it really be noticeable in a cider? You will probably be highly carbed if you used the whole can, but it should taste good still.

dgr said:

You do realize you are going to be at about 3.2 volumes of CO2 if you used that whole thing for 5 gallons?

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Well I do realize this, now

Do you forsee this as a problem?

DrunkleJon said:

That would add an extra bit of appley goodness, but I see no reason to not just use sugar. I mean, too much sugar added to a beer will contribute a cidery flavor, would it really be noticeable in a cider? You will probably be highly carbed if you used the whole can, but it should taste good still.

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<homer simpson voice> mmmmmmm ... Appley goodness ....

Well I may try using primimg sugar in my next batch to compare, figured this time I would take the tip from the LHBS guy. He told me that he is in charge of making apfelwein for his mom and this was the method he used. Maybe she likes it highly carbed?

No one is thinking I may have, gulp, potential bottle bombs afoot do they?

i think you will be OK, as long as the cider had completed it's fermentation(serial stable SGs).
Last year I bottled a cider with 2 cans of that Seneca brand frozen concentrate. I let it thaw, and dumped it in the bottling bucket, then siphoned on top. I was hoping to get some more appley flavor.
No bottle bombs, although she is pretty highly carbonated even a year later. Kind of like a champagne level. This year I'm going to use 1 can. I didn't get the appley goodness I was hoping for. She is still quite dry, although after about 6 months a hint of apple came through. I still add 1/2 tsp. sugar per glass when I have one.
I'm hoping that this year's Graf will retain a little more sweetness.

JimRausch said:

i think you will be OK, as long as the cider had completed it's fermentation(serial stable SGs).
Last year I bottled a cider with 2 cans of that Seneca brand frozen concentrate. I let it thaw, and dumped it in the bottling bucket, then siphoned on top. I was hoping to get some more appley flavor.
No bottle bombs, although she is pretty highly carbonated even a year later. Kind of like a champagne level. This year I'm going to use 1 can. I didn't get the appley goodness I was hoping for. She is still quite dry, although after about 6 months a hint of apple came through. I still add 1/2 tsp. sugar per glass when I have one.
I'm hoping that this year's Graf will retain a little more sweetness.

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I am getting ready to bottle mine now and this is the info I was looking for, do you think it would turn out good if I added a non fermentable sweetener plus the juice concentrate so I don't need to add sugar when I drink it but the carbonation level is still good? Also I am still fairly new to homebrewing and I'm not sure what you mean by sg's is that a way to test if the sugar is all eaten up and fermentation is at a complete halt? I figured I would just wait at least a week or two after the last signs of bubbling, is that a good plan?

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Apfelwein is very dry finishing. Gets drier the more sugar you put in it. You can backsweeten with non fermentables though or get it as sweet as you want it, package (1 in a PET bottle) and squeeze the PET bottle until it hits the carbonation level you want then pasturize the bottles to kill off the yeast.

I would think that your bottles could handle the 3 volumes of CO2. I don't know if I would be leaving a sixer in the trunk of the car in the sun.

justin:
SG=specific gravity. You take a sample and test it with your hydrometer. If you don't have a hydrometer, it's an absolutely essential piece of equipment. And pretty cheap too. Any self-respecting brew shop should carry them, or you can order on-line.
Serial stable SGs= means you take a reading and repeat it in 2-3 days, (and to be absolutely sure 2-3 days after that). If your SG is the same on 2-3 readings, then you know that your yeast have eaten all the sugars that they can, and it is safe to bottle. Cider usually takes off like gangbusters, but can take awhile to get down to FG(final gravity= everything is fermented). So, either take serial SGs, or leave it alone for 4 weeks or so.
DJon is absolutely correct that cider/apfelwein is dry and will tend to give you a FG down around 1.000-1.005. In other words, almost no sugars left. That's what I experienced in last year's batch. And it's why the 2 cans of concentrate gave me little-to-no sweetness, but a little too much carbonation. I learned, and hopefully this year will be sweeter.
Damn, another lond-winded post from me...
Yes, you can add a nonfermentable sweetner at time of bottling. I haven't tried that, but there are posts in the Cider section of the forum with suggestions. There are also posts on pasteurizing your cider once it hits the carbonation:sweetness level you are looking for. Scan the Cider section. There's alot of useful info. Good luck!

JimRausch said:

justin:
SG=specific gravity. You take a sample and test it with your hydrometer. If you don't have a hydrometer, it's an absolutely essential piece of equipment. And pretty cheap too. Any self-respecting brew shop should carry them, or you can order on-line.
Serial stable SGs= means you take a reading and repeat it in 2-3 days, (and to be absolutely sure 2-3 days after that). If your SG is the same on 2-3 readings, then you know that your yeast have eaten all the sugars that they can, and it is safe to bottle. Cider usually takes off like gangbusters, but can take awhile to get down to FG(final gravity= everything is fermented). So, either take serial SGs, or leave it alone for 4 weeks or so.
DJon is absolutely correct that cider/apfelwein is dry and will tend to give you a FG down around 1.000-1.005. In other words, almost no sugars left. That's what I experienced in last year's batch. And it's why the 2 cans of concentrate gave me little-to-no sweetness, but a little too much carbonation. I learned, and hopefully this year will be sweeter.
Damn, another lond-winded post from me...
Yes, you can add a nonfermentable sweetner at time of bottling. I haven't tried that, but there are posts in the Cider section of the forum with suggestions. There are also posts on pasteurizing your cider once it hits the carbonation:sweetness level you are looking for. Scan the Cider section. There's alot of useful info. Good luck!

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Thanks. I do have a hydrometer and understand what you are saying I'm just still new enough that I couldn't figure out what your abbreviations where but yea that makes sense. For the first batch I am going to try pasteurizing it. I am a little worried about bottles exploding on the stove but I am going to use a plastic bottle to watch the carb level and probably do them a little earlier than I would like just to be safe. I am also going to warm the bottles in as hot of water as I can get from the sink before putting them in the pan to try to bring them up to temp a little more than just drooping them in, I know it is hot to cold that breaks them not cold to hot though so maybe I should put them in warm water after removing them from the stove. I will continue doing research I'm not bottling until next weekend.

Hey, I'm learning too!
Every day, in every way, we're getting better and better!
In fact, within the past week or so, I read about a method of pasteurizing that I'm going to try:
Put your bottles in a cooler, and add 160* water(I might go a little higher because as soon as it hits the bottles it will cool down). Leave for 10 minutes.Ouila(OK my French sucks),pasteurization.

I used regular apple juice as my priming sugar. It worked well.

Bottle pasteurizing is fairly easy. What I did wrong was I filled a soda bottle to about 1" from the top, and didn't wait long enough. Make sure the soda bottle is rock hard. Really, like you cannot indent it with your thumb. Granted, I didn't check for sweetness and carbonation, but I thought a week should be long enough, but I was probably over concerned about bottle bombs in my glass bottles. I used the dishwasher to pasteurize my bottles and only had 1 bottle bomb. I am guessing the glass on that 1 bottle was weak. The carbonation was really minimal, but cider wasn't bone dry either. I learned something very valuable about fermenting cider, treat it like beer : keep temperatures under control and under 70* F. At first I didn't know that and made a big batch of nail polish remover smelling cider. It took forever for that nasty smell/taste to go away too. I also freeze concentrate my cider and end up with some nice and smooth Apple Schnapps like liquor. I did prime with AJC, and I believe I used it at the rate of 6 oz per 5 gallons.

I know this is a super old thread but I wanted to share a helpful discovery I just made while calculating how much Cascadian Farms apple juice concentrate to use to prime my cider.

I discovered that 1 teaspoon of Cascadian Farms Apple concentrate contains 2.25 grams of sugar...pretty much perfect for priming one 12-ounce bottle to around 2.6 volumes co2.

I thought this would be very useful for those bottling small batches who want to dose bottles individually. I definitely plan on trying it with some of mine.