i'v heard these grains dont add much to the OG? they are only 30% roughly efficienct for sugar extraction? do you take this into account when trying to create and calculate your OG for your planned batch? I can't seem to get a straight answer...?
Specialty Grains- add any significance to OG?
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LLBeanJ
Well-Known Member
Yes, as long as they're mashed with the requisite base grain needed for conversion, they will affect the gravity and, in my opinion, should be taken into consideration when calculating OG.
What is their extraction efficiency roughly? i'v heard mixed results? 30%?
Also, so if i only steeped specialty grains with no base grains, it would NOT contribute to the OG?
if by "specialty grains" you mean crystal malts: they do not need to be mashed. their starches have already converted, they only need to be steeped (soaked) out. you essentially get 100% efficiency from specialty grains (again, because the sugars were made during the kilning process).
specialty grains most definitely do add to the OG. they also add to the FG, since a portion of their sugars will not be fermentable (this is how crystal malts add body and sweetness - by contributing sugars that the yeast can't digest).
to calculate your OG and FG, use a recipe calculator. www.brewtoad.com is online and free. BeerSmith is a better program, IMO, but it costs money. there is another good online & free tool whose name escapes me at the moment...
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Malts_Chart is a good reference to see how much a malt, including specialty malts, contribute to OG (look under "Potential" which is the PPG).
specialty grains most definitely do add to the OG. they also add to the FG, since a portion of their sugars will not be fermentable (this is how crystal malts add body and sweetness - by contributing sugars that the yeast can't digest).
to calculate your OG and FG, use a recipe calculator. www.brewtoad.com is online and free. BeerSmith is a better program, IMO, but it costs money. there is another good online & free tool whose name escapes me at the moment...
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Malts_Chart is a good reference to see how much a malt, including specialty malts, contribute to OG (look under "Potential" which is the PPG).
Slainte-brew
Well-Known Member
Some specialty grains will contribute to OG, some will not. Many require a base malt to get the enzymes for the conversion. Crystal and Carmel malts will contribute without mashing because of the process of turning them into crystal or caramel. Other specialty malts have enough enzyme to convert themselves. And you have some that wont give anything except color or flavor with out mashing with base malts. I have seen a spread sheet that has all of this info but couldnt find it for you. Sorry I am not more specific. If you are in this forum though are you already mashing something? So just throw in a pound of base malt to any partial mash or throw everything in your regular mash and you are good.
this all begs the question: OP, what do you mean by "specialty malts"? what specific malts are you wondering about?
What specialty malts will not contribute to OG? If there is a grain that will not give some rise in gravity when steeped/mashed, I'm unaware of it.
This is an old chart, OP, but it's still good enough for gov't work, I'm sure.
http://www.howtobrew.com/section2/chapter12-4-1.html
Which specialty grains do NOT contribute to the OG if not mashed? I can't think of any that would come to mind.
Adding grains to a steep would contribute to the OG, would they not?
I'm not one to argue with John Palmer, but if you throw 1/2 pound of biscuit malt in 1 quart of water and hold it at 150 for 45 minutes, and take the OG, it will be higher than 1.000 (water).
Are you sure some of you aren't confusing "gravity points" with "fermentable sugars?"
Hey guys, by specialty grains I have meant the following:
Batch one- belgian aromatic, carapils
batch two- crystal 60, Munich ( is this a specialty), chocolate, flakey barley, flaked oats
so I'm receiving info. that some of these can contribute and some cannot.? does it depend on if they are steeped/mashed with the base grains?
Batch one- belgian aromatic, carapils
batch two- crystal 60, Munich ( is this a specialty), chocolate, flakey barley, flaked oats
so I'm receiving info. that some of these can contribute and some cannot.? does it depend on if they are steeped/mashed with the base grains?
With the exception of Munich, which is a base malt, those are all specialty malts or adjuncts.. All malts/grains add to the OG. Use the charts linked to for an idea as to how much.
irishrover32
Well-Known Member
this is an interesting topic. if you mash your base malt and then remove it and then steep your grains in the wort, will you extract the fermentable and non fermentable sugars from the specialty grains (crystal malts, chocolate malt)
Well, the devil is always in the details.
Some of this will depend upon at what temperature and how long you mash initially. If it's 90 minutes or less, and at a medium to low temp, you'll still have a decent amount of active enzymes in the wort after you remove the base malts. Those enzymes will continue to work on whatever else is added to the mash, to some degree, anyway. What degree they do this depends upon a lot of factors.
There's good reason to think that steeping crystal malts gives a slightly different effect than mashing them with base malts. I don't have the link handy, but a member tried a side by side experiment, and found that when mashed, crystal malts tended to give a more fermentable addition to the wort than when steeped. I can probably find the thread again, if you like.
The point is, you're always going to get some fermentable and non fermentable stuff from most any specialty malt. The only real question is, how much of each? The type of malt matters most, but the mash conditions will in all likelihood affect matters as well.
OK, i'm getting a feel for this now. SO, the specialty malts definitely contribute to the gravity, but depending on the type of specialty malt. Some just require you to "rinse" the sugar out of them. Some require base grain enzymes to be with them in the water. Some give fermentable sugars and some give unfermentable sugars, or even a mix of BOTH.
Now the real question is which specific specialty grains give you what????
Now the real question is which specific specialty grains give you what????
Check the wiki for a description and function of each grain. Specialty grains do not need to be mashed, but some seem to benefit from it (or, at least, change the effect they have on the mash slightly). Some do give other flavor and color compounds, which also adds to gravity. Anything at all that dissolved or is otherwise suspended in the beer/wort adds gravity.
It should be noted that base malts also give a mix of fermentable and unfermentable sugars and other compounds. Adjuncts do the same, and some need to be mashed, often in special ways, where others do not need this. Again, the wiki, or my link to Palmer's book above gives better detail for each grain or additive.
Ok, so I was looking at the wiki table. Does the Mash required category mean that the specialty grains must be included with base grains in order to give any OG? Some specialties I noticed say it is required and some say it is not, depending on which on your looking at.
also, the yield are allmostly in the 70%...does this mean the typical yield for each? if so would I multiply that by the number in the POTENTIAL column...?
every grain gives a mix of both fermentable and unfermentable sugars.
base malts like two-row and pilsner give mostly fermentable, but even 100% two-row won't ferment down to 1.000 (actually a 100% fermentable wort would have a FG below 1.000, but that's another story...)
other grains, such as crystal malts, give mostly unfermentable sugars - but they still contribute some (small) amount of fermentables. someone did an interesting experiment here on HBT on the fermentability of crystals. it was low, but there was some fermentable sugar in there.
You're thinking of this thread. Actually, lighter crystal malts were roughly 50% fermentable, and darker crystal 40% or so. That number went up when mashed, versus steeped. So most crystal malts, when mashed, do not contain just a small amount of fermentable sugars - most of the sugars in them is fermentable.
True- but even if they didn't ferment, they would contribute to the OG. And that was the topic of this thread.
Anything you add to the wort- sugar, honey, grain, lactose, etc- will impact the OG and possibly the FG.
correct, both of you above have given me good insight to answer my questions. thanks for your help. the main idea behind me asking these questions was my OG prediction is higher than what I have actually gotten on my first two batches. one had all grain mashing, the other i only had specialty. so that is what drew my questions to this forum
I think this is the answer to your initial question, but maybe not in the way you think it is. When first starting out into all grain, it's fairly common to have efficiencies that vary quite a bit between brews (and hence different OGs even from the same recipe). Once you get your methods down, your OGs will become more reliable on a per recipe basis.
In general, there is more room for error in all grain, so it's going to be more variable than extract.
Weezy
Well-Known Member
They absolutely affect OG. The more intriguing question is how do they affect FG.
