Help with All Grain

Hello,

My first all grain was an IPA and it turned out good. My second attempt was a Blonde Ale. The fermentation was very quick and was able to keg after 2 weeks from brew day. I forced carbonated by shaking method. The beer was carbonated well but I am noticing a flavor that I am not fond off. It might be a grainy taste but I am not 100% sure. Is the beer too early to be drinking and needs conditioned longer? Is it possible to have a good beer from grain to glass in 2 weeks?

It is absolutely possible to go grain to glass in just over 2 weeks. I routinely force carbonate beer after 2 weeks of fermentation, especially very light bodied pale and blonde ales. I do try to let them condition about a week after kegging them, just to make sure they are nice and clean.

CA_Mouse said:

It is absolutely possible to go grain to glass in just over 2 weeks. I routinely force carbonate beer after 2 weeks of fermentation, especially very light bodied pale and blonde ales. I do try to let them condition about a week after kegging them, just to make sure they are nice and clean.

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Do you think there might be something wrong with my Blonde Ale or do you think it could get better with time?

2 weeks is really pushing it.
Fast fermentation = hot fermentation. 4 or 5 degrees higher than ambient temperature is pretty normal. A really aggresive fermentation might be 10 degrees warmer than ambient. Fermenting at temps at ethe upper end, or higher than what the yeast likes will create off flavors. This could be what you are tasting, or it might be just too green, or your mash temps were high. There are lots of reasons the taste might be off, but you're going to need to give it some more time for sure.

acidrain said:

2 weeks is really pushing it.
Fast fermentation = hot fermentation. 4 or 5 degrees higher than ambient temperature is pretty normal. A really aggresive fermentation might be 10 degrees warmer than ambient. Fermenting at temps at ethe upper end, or higher than what the yeast likes will create off flavors. This could be what you are tasting, or it might be just too green, or your mash temps were high. There are lots of reasons the taste might be off, but you're going to need to give it some more time for sure.

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My fermentation temp according to the fermometer was around 62-64. It was in a cold basement on a cold floor. Mash temp average was around 150. I used US-05 and the fermentation was done in 6-10 days. Now the IPA was good young but that had a lot of hop flavor. The Blonde Ale does not, so do you think it needs time to mellow? I am concerned I did something wrong in my process, even though I think I did everything right.

I kegged an amber ale after 9 days to see how early a beer could be ready. I started drinking after about 3 days in the keg. I love beer soo much i enjoyed it but was it as good as my other beers that have had more time? No way.

Turns out i drank the whole keg in two weeks and the last couple of pints really showed me what the beer could have been.

From this little one time experiment i learned beers need at least 3 weeks grain to glass.

TimelessCynic said:

I kegged an amber ale after 9 days to see how early a beer could be ready. I started drinking after about 3 days in the keg. I love beer soo much i enjoyed it but was it as good as my other beers that have had more time? No way.

Turns out i drank the whole keg in two weeks and the last couple of pints really showed me what the beer could have been.

From this little one time experiment i learned beers need at least 3 weeks grain to glass.

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That's what I'm thinking.

BTW, fermometers don't mean crap... the core temp of the beer will always be higher than what they read.

Give it some time and see how it tastes.

It is possible that I over sparged. I think I added too much water then I needed. Would this cause a grainy flavor?

Over sparging shouldn't cause an off flavor. If you sparged too hot, it could be possible that you extracted tannins from the grains. Tannin has an almost woody taste to it. Like brewing tea and squeezing the bag will pull the metallic/woody tastes from the tea leaves.

hawkeyes said:

Do you think there might be something wrong with my Blonde Ale or do you think it could get better with time?

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It really depends on what the flavor is that you are tasting. Did you use a hop that you hadn't used before? Perhaps this is a hop flavor that you are tasting.

CA_Mouse said:

It really depends on what the flavor is that you are tasting. Did you use a hop that you hadn't used before? Perhaps this is a hop flavor that you are tasting.

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I used Willamette at 60 minutes for bittering, that's all I used for hops.

If you can describe what you are tasting, I'm sure that someone here can point you in the right direction.

I think it taste grainy, definitely not a balanced flavor.

Wait another two weeks hawkeye then assess. Be patient. You cannot expect to drink beer after only brewing it two weeks ago.

I suggest you brew more batches in the mean time and get the pipeline full soo you can afford to be patient.

hawkeyes said:

I think it taste grainy, definitely not a balanced flavor.

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A grainy taste could mean that you sparged too hot and extracted tannins. If you wait it out a couple of weeks, it should mellow and most likely taste better by then.

I know my sparge temps were fine and didn't go over on temperature. I made a BIAB cream ale once and noticed the same flavor. Maybe my PH level is off during the mash and/or sparge, that's the only thing I can think of. I will give it more time but I know the cream ale never got better.

hawkeyes said:

I know my sparge temps were fine and didn't go over on temperature. I made a BIAB cream ale once and noticed the same flavor. Maybe my PH level is off during the mash and/or sparge, that's the only thing I can think of. I will give it more time but I know the cream ale never got better.

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What is your recipe and yeast strain? I'm thinking it might be a recipe issue because you would be getting the same of flavor with your other beers if it was a process issue.

You can definitely go grain to glass in two weeks with certain styles if you know what you are doing with fermentation. I go grain to glass in 7 days with my American Wheat fermented with White Labs Kölsch yeast and have no flavor problems.

You know what I've noticed? A brewer that obsesses about his beer as you are makes an excellent brewer. I can't tell you how much sleep I've lost worrying over my brews. Haven't lost one yet. This last batch I have dry hopping right now is the first I've been so worried about that I actually considered the fact that I might be pouring this one out.
I would like to see if I can find a virgin wood barrel to age it in, since the hop bitterness is over-the-top. I need something to mellow it down a few notches.
Let your brew sit for a while. Keg aging may do it some good.

Recipe for the Blonde ale was

6 gallon batch
1.050 OG
11.5 lbs 2 Row
.50 lbs Crystal 15

1 oz Willamette @ 60 minutes

US 05

Mashed at 150-152 for 60 minutes; batch sparge at 165 -168

Fermented at around 64-66; fermentation was done around 5-7 days

I don't notice this flavor is any of the darker color beers, I am using tap water.

So when you batch sparge you should start checking the gravity of the 2nd runnings when they're about halfway drained. If you get down the 1014 range, slow it down and check more frequently. If you get to 1010 stop. Getting that low will extract undesirable flavors from your grains. Also, with a recipe that clean and simple there is no place for off flavors to hide. I would look at your water too...... Are you using tap water or distilled?

sparkeee277 said:

So when you batch sparge you should start checking the gravity of the 2nd runnings when they're about halfway drained. If you get down the 1014 range, slow it down and check more frequently. If you get to 1010 stop. Getting that low will extract undesirable flavors from your grains. Also, with a recipe that clean and simple there is no place for off flavors to hide. I would look at your water too...... Are you using tap water or distilled?

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I will start checking my batch sparge. I used tap water but I am thinking of trying RO water on my next beer. If I do go with RO water, should I use Calcium Chloride and/or Gypsum?

hawkeyes said:

Hello,
It might be a grainy taste but I am not 100% sure.

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A grainy taste is how some people describe a small amount of astringency in their beer. It is possible that you sparged too much (collecting too much wort from your grain bed) or that your grain bed temperature rose above 170 °F (77 °C) near the end of sparging. (Check your thermometer and calibrate, if needed.)
If the grainy taste is a slight amount of astringency, this will not age out.
The next time you brew, stop collecting wort when the gravity of the runnings dip below 2 °Plato (SG 1.008) or the pH rises above 5.8. The latter is a better indicator. You can also quickly cool and taste the final runnings and quit collecting wort when they get overly tannic (astringent).


Chris Colby
Editor
beerandwinejournal.com

hawkeyes said:

I will start checking my batch sparge. I used tap water but I am thinking of trying RO water on my next beer. If I do go with RO water, should I use Calcium Chloride and/or Gypsum?

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Viking Chris is right on....

It depends on the style of beer your are brewing and what is in your tap water. To get my balance in the right range I use gyp to drop my pH, and baking soda to raise it. But you have to look at your water report and see what you're starting with. The formulas take a little figuring, but basically, the lighter the color of the beer, the lower the pH needs to be.
There is a great chart and explanation on how to adjust your mash pH in "How to Brew" by John Palmer. You should check it out....... If you use distilled water you can just make your additions based on your recipe and not the water.

VikingChrisColby said:

If the grainy taste is a slight amount of astringency, this will not age out.The next time you brew, stop collecting wort when the gravity of the runnings dip below 2 °Plato (SG 1.008) or the pH rises above 5.8. The latter is a better indicator. You can also quickly cool and taste the final runnings and quit collecting wort when they get overly tannic (astringent).

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I brewed again yesterday and was keeping an eye on my sparge. I stopped when I was right at 1.008. I am sure that my Blonde Ale was over sparged because I just kept sparging until I reached the amount of wort needed pre-boil.
In fact, I was short on my pre-boil because I stopped. Is there anything I can do to try to collect enough without dropping below 1.008? It seems like I am learning something new every all grain batch.

hawkeyes said:

I brewed again yesterday and was keeping an eye on my sparge. I stopped when I was right at 1.008. I am sure that my Blonde Ale was over sparged because I just kept sparging until I reached the amount of wort needed pre-boil.
In fact, I was short on my pre-boil because I stopped. Is there anything I can do to try to collect enough without dropping below 1.008? It seems like I am learning something new every all grain batch.

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You can top up with water if your sparge runnings get too low, and your efficiency is ok.

One thing that can be responsible for a "grainy" flavor is if the mash pH is too high. Using tap water often is just fine, but many water supplies (like mine) have too much bicarbonate to make a really good light colored beer. I have to use reverse osmosis water, and/or use some acid in the mash to get a decent mash pH, and many others do as well.

Yooper said:

You can top up with water if your sparge runnings get too low, and your efficiency is ok.

One thing that can be responsible for a "grainy" flavor is if the mash pH is too high. Using tap water often is just fine, but many water supplies (like mine) have too much bicarbonate to make a really good light colored beer. I have to use reverse osmosis water, and/or use some acid in the mash to get a decent mash pH, and many others do as well.

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That's what I did this time around. I got Bru'n water. I used RO Water, acid malt, gypsum, epsom salt, and Calcium Chloride. It was a very easy task so I am going to start doing this from now on. My tap water is very hard here, I am sure the water had something to do with this off flavor.

hawkeyes said:

That's what I did this time around. I got Bru'n water. I used RO Water, acid malt, gypsum, epsom salt, and Calcium Chloride. It was a very easy task so I am going to start doing this from now on. My tap water is very hard here, I am sure the water had something to do with this off flavor.

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Sounds good- except for the epsom salt (as that's tricky to use and generally not needed). You don't need epsom salt or gypsum for a blonde ale, and probably should stick with just calcium chloride for that.

So second time around I made a Blonde Ale with RO Water. I used the water additives for 'yellow balanced' profile in Bru'n water. I am still getting the grainy aftertaste. I am not quite sure what I am doing wrong. The water should be fine, the mash was spot on. I was checking the gravity during the sparge. I also used acid malt to keep the pH down. There was no husks or grains getting into the wort.