I'm thinking of brewing a cider from unpasteurized cider from the store, my question is what all do I need to do to the cider from the store to ready it for fermentation and could I use 002 or 007? If not I'll wait and see what my LHBS has next time I'm down there but was just thinking and figured I would see what you guys think
Cider with beer yeast?
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1fast636
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Sweet on the 001 got lots of that on hand. if I don't add a Camden tab what can I expect of the cider? And if I do add a tab what would be the out come, I will be adding neutrient and energizer at pitching too.
Curious as to why you went thru all the trouble to get unpasturized cider and then want to put camden tabs in it? What store sells unpasturized cider? Lots of people use beer yeast for cider so you shouldnt have any problems just tossing it in. WVMJ
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1fast636
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I haven't gotten any cider yet it's my first attempt I thought pasteurized would not ferment, and I don't have Camden tabs so prolly wouldn't of used one anyways lol. pretty sure my local store sells unpasteurized local stuff tho will check next time I'm there, which will prolly be when im buying to brew. I've learned two things today now pasteurized doesn't matter and bottling cider doesn't need pasteurized unless your sweetening .
As I understand it the Camden suppresses the wild yeasts enough to give what u pitch a head start. I would think unpasteurized juice would need it more than pasteurized would.
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madscientist451
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In Pennsylvania, the only legal way to buy unpasteurized cider is from the the actual location where it is pressed. If its in a store, its been pasteurized some way. Sometimes heat pasteurization is used, but usually they run it through a UV light exposure machine that kills bacteria and yeast.
But just because its pasteurized, doesn't mean it has preservatives in it.
The pasteurization kills off e-coli bacteria as well as most of the wild yeast.
If you are getting it from a store, the label will have the ingredients.
If a preservative like potasium sorbate has been added, your yeast won't grow.
I think the flavor of the cider is better when you use the unpasteurized, unfiltered cider that you get directly from the orchard.
Having said that, I have made decent cider using commercial apple juice like "simply apple" that is available in the cold case at the supermarket.
All of the local orchards near me have discontinued making their own
cider because of the government regulations and the fear of being sued.
But just because its pasteurized, doesn't mean it has preservatives in it.
The pasteurization kills off e-coli bacteria as well as most of the wild yeast.
If you are getting it from a store, the label will have the ingredients.
If a preservative like potasium sorbate has been added, your yeast won't grow.
I think the flavor of the cider is better when you use the unpasteurized, unfiltered cider that you get directly from the orchard.
Having said that, I have made decent cider using commercial apple juice like "simply apple" that is available in the cold case at the supermarket.
All of the local orchards near me have discontinued making their own
cider because of the government regulations and the fear of being sued.
I think you're confusing pasteurized vs preservatives. Pasteurization kills the wild yeasts and other bacteria. As mentioned, the laws in most states prevent the sale of unpasteurized cider unless it's right from the orchard to the consumer. Even my local orchard pasteurizes their cider. If you truly have unpasteurized cider then most people will use campden tablets before pitching the yeast.
Preservatives are different altogether. Things like potassium sorbate and sodium benzoate extend the shelf life of the cider and will not allow fermentation without jumping through hoops. The ideal juice is pasteurized but no preservatives.
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1fast636
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Ah alright I got it yea might of been confusing those terms lol. Heading to the store with in the week thinking of doing a gallon batch first to see why the wife thinks of it then do a 5 after if she likes it
paperairplane
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With cider you need minimal head space. They tend to bubble and fizz more than really churn. I've never needed a blow off.
You want pasturized with no preservatives - ascorbic acid is fine, you must avoid sorbates sulfites and similar.
You want pasturized with no preservatives - ascorbic acid is fine, you must avoid sorbates sulfites and similar.
I'm doing the same, but used S-04.
Can you add sugar prior to fermenting to boost ABV and still have some sugar left when the yeast reaches it's limits? I guess, at what sugar amount added will the yeast die off before done fermenting?
Can you add sugar prior to fermenting to boost ABV and still have some sugar left when the yeast reaches it's limits? I guess, at what sugar amount added will the yeast die off before done fermenting?
TasunkaWitko
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One could always get a bunch of apples, juice them and then boil the juice for a few minutes and then allow to cool before proceeding?
andrewmaixner
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I have used WY 3711 and Bell Saison yeast cakes for cider (pasteurized /filtered / no additives) and it turned out good. Didn't have to worry about temperature control in the garage in the summer with those, as long as you like the saison yeast characteristics. Everyone that has tasted it so far liked it (haven't gotten feedback from any "professional" yet).
There was a recent article on the front page that recommends adding diammonium phosphate when using ale yeast. Some of the comments suggested using Fermaid nutrient because it includes diammonium phosphate and some other nutrients.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/cider-batch-planning.html
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/cider-batch-planning.html
frettfreak
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You can and i would definitely recommend it unless you just want a pretty light cider. Just straight apple juice is about 1.054. I usually add some sugar to get mine between 1.065 - 1.070. I have a batch fermenting now that i used 1lb corn sugar and 1.5lb demerera and if i remember right my OG ended up around 1.069.
Its not the suagr that will stop the yeast (as long as you dont go TOO crazy on the OG) and it totally depends on the yeast strain as to where you will ferment out to. If you are not planning on back sweetening but dont want a cider that is too dry you can use somehting like s-04 or wlp002. For dryer cleaner finish, use something like wlp001 or US-05. Lots of people use champagne yeast as well as yeast that is made just for ciders too. I would also recommend some yeast nutrient
andrewmaixner
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Yes, I should note that I used yeast nutrient (contains DAP) and good oxygenation when pitching cider onto yeast cakes.
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1fast636
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Well looks like I will be contacting my closest cidery cause the stuff at the store has the sorbet crap in it, I found Apple juice with no preservatives in it but that was 1/2 gallon for 6.99 in the all nAtural section will let you guys know how I make out on the hunt
Do you have a costco or other warehouse store near you? I have been making cider for the past 4-5 years and have always used tree top brand apple juice as the base. Costco usually has a 2 gallon pack of tree top apple juice for $8-10, and that is Alaska prices so maybe cheaper in the lower 48.
I do 4 gallons into the fermenter, and then add in 1-2 lbs of corn sugar to bump the ABV.
Pitch a packet our two of US-05 and then let it ferment at 62-65F for a couple of weeks. Generally US-05 brings it down to 1.004 or even less. it will start to look more like apple juice and then you know it is ready.
I then use some Camden tablets to put the yeast to sleep and move it all to the keg. If you plan to sweeten and are bottling make sure you look into pasteurizing your bottles.
I then back sweeten with apple juice concentrate to taste. Sometimes sweet sometimes dry.
Hit it with CO2 and let it carb up. I have even back sweetened with raspberry/apple concentrate and also made a caramel cinnamon sauce for a "holiday"version.
all have been very very popular.
I just started two batches with S-04 and fresh pressed juice from the orchard. I usually add 1 cup of sugar per gallon. It bumps the alcohol up about 2%.
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1fast636
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Just emailed two Apple farms that are local one that I will be 2 mins away from tomorrow and the other is near my work in a sense. Asked if they had or knew where I can get some fresh or even some with out preservatives. Will let you know how I make out
Renoun
Well-Known Member
That plan would be contrary the conventional wisdom. Pasturizaton only requires raising the temperature to 160F-180F range for a few seconds followed by chilling. Boiling is definitely going to set the pectins and result in hazy cider with less flavor. I've been treating cider I personally press with campden tablets (potassium-metabisulfite). In the past I've used one tablet per gallon, this year I've used half a tablet per gallon based on additional alnalysis that suggests that the higher doses were more appropriate for grape must which has different chemistry than apple must/juice/cider. I've been very successful using Nottingham dry ale yeast but feel free to read the entire "Results from juice, yeast and sugar experiments" thread yourself.
Univ. of Minnesota extension 160F for six seconds.
Penn. State Extension
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1fast636
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1fast636
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So a local cidery (not hard cidery) said I could drop a carboy off and get cider right off the press and would be around $13 for 5 gals. I'm pretty excited only thing that's going to be tuff is getting over there when there open only open m-f 7am to 4pm, same hours as I work lol. But she said I could drop off a car boy and pick up after filled so could drop it off with cash and pick it up after hours if all else fails I guess
