How to improve my efficiency

Completed my second BIAB (5.5 gallon) and I ended with an efficiency of 62.25% Aside from getting a better crush on the grains, what are some techniques you pros are using to get better efficiency's? I would like to get to 70%+ efficiency if possible. Thanks!!!!

Double mill your grains. Stir once or twice over the 60 minute mash. I've gotten 80+ efficiency this way.

Mash for 90 minutes instead of 60.
Mash-out.
Sparge.
Drain and squeeze the bag really well.

Make sure the volumes you are dealing with are accurate. I had a period of about 1 year when I used a metered spoon to measure my volumes. I had cut notches in the spoon to show me where gallons were. My measured efficiency was 65-75 doing all grain and fly sparging, lower in the beginning and then higher after going to a finer crush and longer mash times. Finally my spoon broke and I got another spoon and repeated the calibration process. On my next brew my efficiency was ~85, and so were the ones after. It turned out that I had calibrated my first spoon incorrectly and the difference in volume was enough to throw my efficiency off a LOT.
The moral of my story is to make sure your volumes are accurate measurements. Don't guess and don't assume. It makes all the difference

FatDragon said:

Mash for 90 minutes instead of 60.
Drain and squeeze the bag really well.

Click to expand...

I have heard that squeezing the bag is unwise as you could release more tannins from the husks this way. I have no idea if this is correct or not, but it might be worth looking into.

Can you guys tells me what the best way to sparge is when doing BIAB, I may have a misunderstanding of the process and I want to get it right. I was following the sticky post of how to BIAB and don't see sparging in there. Also, how accurate are we talking for water volumes? My kettle (Bayou Classic 10Gal) only has 1/4 gallon incriments which makes it incredibly hard to read after grains and wort and hops have gotten all over the side of it.

As for the process, I have been mashing for 60 mins, then I hang the grain bag (which is in the turkey fryer basket) over the wort while bringing to a boil and squeeze the grains for about 20-30 mins using a sauce pan lid. Is there a better method than I am using? Thanks fo the help!

tooblue02 said:

Can you guys tells me what the best way to sparge is when doing BIAB, I may have a misunderstanding of the process and I want to get it right. I was following the sticky post of how to BIAB and don't see sparging in there.

Click to expand...

I thought BIAB was a no-sparge technique, which is why you take on efficiency (I also would have guessed that 62% would have been pretty good for BIAB)...I'll defer to the BIAB experts to correct me.

tooblue02 said:

Also, how accurate are we talking for water volumes? My kettle (Bayou Classic 10Gal) only has 1/4 gallon incriments which makes it incredibly hard to read after grains and wort and hops have gotten all over the side of it.

Click to expand...

That is more than accurate if the markings are right and you are looking at it right. My BK sightglass is in 1/2 gallon increments.

That is more than accurate if the markings are right and you are looking at it right. My BK sightglass is in 1/2 gallon increments.[/QUOTE]

Agreed, that is fine enough to get a close result.

When you BIAB and get that low of efficiency, the cause is nearly always the crush. Crush the grains fine, then crush them again. There should be no intact grains and the husks should be ripped to shreds. Lots of floury looking particles is fine too since your filter medium is the bag, not the grain husks.

With no sparge I can get about 80% efficiency. Add a small sparge and up it goes. I like to stir in water (a quart of so) right in the bag of grains after I have squeezed out all the wort I can. Then squeeze that out too. If you use your hands to get that last bit of wort squeezed out they will be really sticky from the sugars. You can get some more of those sugars into your pot by doing a second sparge of perhaps 2 quarts and then squeezing it again. The squeezing isn't what releases the tannins but the pH. As long as your pH is under 6.0 you should be fine.

I sparge by pouring 170 degree water over the grain bag sitting in a colander over a pot or bucket. I then take the "runnings" and add to the boil kettle.

I'll echo the comments of a double crush being necessary for me to achieve 80% efficiency with BIAB. I am only a dabbler though, mostly I use my cooler.

broadbill said:

I thought BIAB was a no-sparge technique, which is why you take on efficiency (I also would have guessed that 62% would have been pretty good for BIAB)...I'll defer to the BIAB experts to correct me.

Click to expand...

I'm no expert, just a guy who's done a lot of reading and one BIAB batch with several improvements to be made.

One of the attractions of BIAB is that sparging isn't really necessary, and you can definitely BIAB without it, but sparging does improve BIAB efficiency. Some sparge because their kettle can't hit pre-boil volume without it, others to get a couple points of efficiency. Pouring sparge water at the right temperature over the hanging grain bag, squeezed or unsqueezed, is an easy method, or some will dunk sparge in a second pot instead. Either way, sparging washes some of the extra sugars out of the spent grain, so there's naturally an efficiency boost if you do it.

I have also noticed a big jump in efficiency when using a much warmer sparge (less than 170 degrees ending up in the mash of course)

Is it necessary to Double mill if you do a tight crush single pass? Like .032?

I find that a dunk sparge (letting the grains sit for 5 minutes and stirring them) increases efficiency by at least 10%. (so 64% would become 70% or a tad more)

When I take refractometer readings the dunk sparge gives a reading about half of what I got from the main runnings.

So far I seem to be averaging around 73%, and I'd like to know what I could do to get 80%.

Setesh said:

I have heard that squeezing the bag is unwise as you could release more tannins from the husks this way. I have no idea if this is correct or not, but it might be worth looking into.

Click to expand...

That's a myth. Tannins are only released by heat or bad pH.

ArcLight said:

Is it necessary to Double mill if you do a tight crush single pass? Like .032?

I find that a dunk sparge (letting the grains sit for 5 minutes and stirring them) increases efficiency by at least 10%. (so 64% would become 70% or a tad more)

When I take refractometer readings the dunk sparge gives a reading about half of what I got from the main runnings.

So far I seem to be averaging around 73%, and I'd like to know what I could do to get 80%.

Click to expand...

Why not just try double-milling and see what it gets you? From what I've read, BIAB can be done with barley that has been absolutely pulverized, so unless your .032 crush is turning the grain into flour, you would probably benefit from a second pass.

And again, a longer mash and a mash-out are supposed to help. I'm not an expert, just a seeker like yourself, but those are the three places I'd look.

ArcLight said:

Is it necessary to Double mill if you do a tight crush single pass? Like .032?

I find that a dunk sparge (letting the grains sit for 5 minutes and stirring them) increases efficiency by at least 10%. (so 64% would become 70% or a tad more)

When I take refractometer readings the dunk sparge gives a reading about half of what I got from the main runnings.

So far I seem to be averaging around 73%, and I'd like to know what I could do to get 80%.

Click to expand...

I think you have partly answered your own question. The finer the crush the better the efficiency and the quicker conversion occurs. If the grain particles are bigger, it will take more time for them to wet to the center and more time to leach the sugars back out. The actual conversion time is quite short.

I have a Corona style mill and I have it set as tight as I can get it. The plates on it are rubbing when it has no grain in it. I expect to get 80% efficiency with no sparge and upwards of 85% if I do any kind of sparge at all, even if I just pour some water into the bag of grains after I have squeezed the wort out and then squeeze that sparge water back out.

When you drain the bag the first time, the wort is saturated with sugars. Adding fresh water will then dissolve more sugars until that sparge water is also saturated. You could go on sparging and extract more sugars but you then may run into problems with the pH going up and then you can extract tannins. It's a balancing game, give up some of the sugars (efficiency) or make bad tasting beer (tannins).

So, if I am understanding all the wonderful advice...

1) Double mill is essential to increasing efficiency

2) Sparging, although not required, will give you a few more notches on the efficiency scale

3) Volume measurement is critical, 1/4 gallon incriments are fine but more accuracy is always better

4) Temperature and time are key to a goood mash (go 90mins as opposed to 60mins, use an accurate temp probe)

As for the sparging, can I drain some wort out of my kettle and pour it back over my grains? Or is it better to start with less strike water in the kettle and add the rest by dumping it over the grains after the mash to help with extracting sugars? I suppose the fresh water will be able to grab more sugar than the already made wort due to the absorbtion of sugars by the water (insert lots of chemistry terms that I have forgotton about water absorbtion properties and what not, I think I still have my college chem book somewhere...)??

To tell you all the truth, I am about to head to the store to get some grains for my next batch and try out some of these techniques and report back! I am going to go after a Sierra Neveada Celebration clone next but wasn't planning on starting until weekend after next. For this batch I will be mashing as before with less strike water, and pouring fresh water over the spent grains and see what that does to my efficiency. Thanks again for all the advice, I think it's time to start brewing!

another possibility is that your grain bag is too small, causing clumping. paint strainer bags are perfect. if you have the right bag, the grain sort of just floats around in the pot and the bag is really just there for straining at the end.

FatDragon said:

I'm no expert, just a guy who's done a lot of reading and one BIAB batch with several improvements to be made.

One of the attractions of BIAB is that sparging isn't really necessary, and you can definitely BIAB without it, but sparging does improve BIAB efficiency. Some sparge because their kettle can't hit pre-boil volume without it, others to get a couple points of efficiency. Pouring sparge water at the right temperature over the hanging grain bag, squeezed or unsqueezed, is an easy method, or some will dunk sparge in a second pot instead. Either way, sparging washes some of the extra sugars out of the spent grain, so there's naturally an efficiency boost if you do it.

Click to expand...

I get that-but if you are going to sparge why not get a cooler and do a batch sparge? I thought the whole allure of the BIAB is that you didn't have to do a sparge (and you increased your grain bill to compensate?)

Lifting a hot bag full of wet grain and then trying to pour hotter water over it, for a few points of efficiency is turning BIAB into PITA. Just my opinion though, I understand there are many ways to skin a cat.

broadbill said:

I get that-but if you are going to sparge why not get a cooler and do a batch sparge? I thought the whole allure of the BIAB is that you didn't have to do a sparge (and you increased your grain bill to compensate?)

Lifting a hot bag full of wet grain and then trying to pour hotter water over it, for a few points of efficiency is turning BIAB into PITA. Just my opinion though, I understand there are many ways to skin a cat.

Click to expand...

Personally I do a cool water sparge. I get a 5% increase and I just use luke warm water out of the tap. Oh and I dunk sparge so I use another pot and just dunk the hot grains in for 10 minutes while the wort is heating up. After that the grains are not hot at all and I can squeeze with no gloves. Yeah I have one more pot to clean up but I can do that during the boil, or more often I use the water first coming off of the IC to clean that pot.

broadbill said:

I get that-but if you are going to sparge why not get a cooler and do a batch sparge? I thought the whole allure of the BIAB is that you didn't have to do a sparge (and you increased your grain bill to compensate?)

Lifting a hot bag full of wet grain and then trying to pour hotter water over it, for a few points of efficiency is turning BIAB into PITA. Just my opinion though, I understand there are many ways to skin a cat.

Click to expand...

That was the original premise for BIAB. You could get good efficiency without having to do the sparge step. I tried that a couple times and got 80% efficiency with my setup. Then I tried a dunk sparge. Oops, wort on the counter and floor because I had too much water in too small of a container. From that I moved to just setting the bag of damp grains in a colander that was sitting in a bowl and pouring water through. Efficiency went up because I was capturing sugars that would otherwise have been discarded. Then I tried it with cold water. If you add a small amount of cold water to hot damp grain, you can get pretty good extraction of sugars because the water will be heated by the grains but the grains will be cooler and easier to handle to squeeze out that last bit of sugar laden wort.

I've had success getting 85% efficiency by just squeezing the grain bag as much as I can when first lifting the bag after mash out, then placing the grain bag in a colander suspended over a plastic bucket. While the wort is heating up to a boil,I just let the bag sit and drain into the bucket. Once I get a good boil started, I pour whatever drained into the bucket into the pot and proceed as normal. Still a no sparge but just collecting the drainings from the wort bag seems to help with efficiency. I also use one of those 5 gallon Home Depot paint strainer bags to give sufficient room for the grains to move around during the mash, and probably stir with a mash paddle 2-3 times during the hour.

broadbill said:

I get that-but if you are going to sparge why not get a cooler and do a batch sparge? I thought the whole allure of the BIAB is that you didn't have to do a sparge (and you increased your grain bill to compensate?)

Lifting a hot bag full of wet grain and then trying to pour hotter water over it, for a few points of efficiency is turning BIAB into PITA. Just my opinion though, I understand there are many ways to skin a cat.

Click to expand...

for me the allure of biab is that there is only one container, and so less to clean at the end. plus it is temp controlled. less equipment to buy.

i just set the steamer basket, with bag in it on top of the pot, with a grill grate. and pour about a gallon of boiled water over the top. it's not really a true sparge just rinsing the sugars off while it drips over the soon to be boiling water.

i tend to step my temperatures up during the mash, to hit other target temps, and then leave it at 152 for about 90 minutes.

according to beersmith, i get 75-82%

Great advice in this thread. I can't wait to get settled from moving to try BIAB. The simplicity really appeals to me.

I think it would be interesting to see someone do a split batch. 1/2 no sparge, and the other half gets some form of sparge. It would be interesting to see the differences in efficiency from the same batch (which would have the same baseline) rather than on a batch to batch basis, which could have other variables.

Setesh said:

I have heard that squeezing the bag is unwise as you could release more tannins from the husks this way. I have no idea if this is correct or not, but it might be worth looking into.

Click to expand...

Has been proving as false. Tannins are extracted when PH is off and not by squeezing the bag. I squeeze the hell out of mine with no problems.

I have been double milling my grains (Barley Crusher @.039), and I have TONS of trub. I do a lot of wheat beers, which I know can contribute to this, but I had same issue with a pale ale. My OG have been consistently .003 or .004 higher than predicted. (I use 2 Wilserbrewer bags)
I have had one batch where the dip tube on my Blichmann plugged when transferring to fermenter! The last few batches I used a sanitized paint strainer bag in the funnel to help with the trub layer in the fermenter. I am wondering if double milling is overkill, or if rice hulls may help. If I just put it all in fermenter, I worry about volume measurements because there is a serious trub layer on the bottom of my carboy after 7-10 days. Any thoughts?

cpl-america said:

for me the allure of biab is that there is only one container, and so less to clean at the end. plus it is temp controlled. less equipment to buy.

Click to expand...

Ditto, but I can't believe how much stuff I have already purchased for this hobby. The extra kettle(s), tun, stand would be too much big stuff for me.

I get a lot of trub in my BIAB batches also because I have my LHBS double mill my grains. I found that whirlpooling in the kettle before transferring to my fermenter helps a lot, so you may want to try that.

I never tried using a strainer in my funnel, but that also might help too.

I am going to be trying a few different methods on my next batch (Sierra Nevada Celbration Clone) this weekend. I will be doing the following to see if I can improve:

1) Reserving 1 gallon of water for "washing the grains" into my old extract brew pot, planning on warming up the water slightly but keeping it within reason for step 2
2) Once in the other brew kettle, and rinsed, I am going to use the big SS collander I have and squeeze the grain bag really good to get out as much wort as possible
3) See if I can get a little more accuracy on my measurements
4) Going to try to whirlpool also as I have been having major issues with clogging when transferring wort to the fermentor, for that I should cool first then whirlpool with my paddle? let sit for 30mins?

One question I still have is that when I take my pre boil sample, how do you all cool it down to measure the OG? Last time I waited quite a while for it to get down to where I could actually measure it. I used my beer thief to take the sample, probably should just take the sample from the ball valve and put it into a jar or glass and then into an ice bath to get it to 70? Thoughts on this? I will take some pictures while I am brewing to show what I do, maybe you all can give me some more pointers? After this brew day I am going to need some ideas for my next batch! Would like to do something other than an IPA or Stout, was thinking of a good blonde ale, no fruits though... Any suggestions? Thanks!!!!

broadbill said:

I thought BIAB was a no-sparge technique, which is why you take on efficiency (I also would have guessed that 62% would have been pretty good for BIAB)...I'll defer to the BIAB experts to correct me.

Click to expand...

I just use a bag to make cleanup as easy as possible.
I heat my sparge water first and set aside that kettle in my 175 degree preheated oven..
I use my normal amount of mash water and add a cup of sparge water at a time if my mash is too thick.
this plus step mashing has helped me see up to 80% efficiency.