BIAB with volauf and sparge???

so im about to switch over to BIAB and have read a few threads of people messing with a sort of sparging or vorlaufing, but cant seem to find anyone doing as im about to describe or if there are any advantages/disadvantages to it.

basically i what to use a 15G kettle with a basket lined with a BIAB Bag. the basket is held off the bottom about 2 inches (sort of a false bottom). i want to hold off about 1/4 of the full mash volume for a passive sparge. i want to recirculate during the mash for the full 60 min. then hoist the bucket lined bag out of the liquid for drining i then want to continue to recirculate for a vorlauf affect. from here i will take the remaining water and sparge/rinse the grain. finally remove grain bucket and go to the boil.

does anyone see any benefit or drawbacks to this method? do you feel that without the active "sucking" of the wort through the grain bed the vorlauf wont reach the desired affect.

or is this whole thing just complicating a simple method?

Your vorlauf should work fine. Its purpose is to use the grains and their husks to form a filter, perhaps a better filter than the BIAB bag would. I'm not sure at all that the time involved would be worth the change in the final product.

Do you have a good reason to mash for the full 60 minutes? I've been getting full conversion at 30 and have had that at 10 minutes even. It does take a finer crush/grind than most people get from their LHBS though.

I crush myself and eas planning a finer grind, however was still planning the full 60. Mostly because its what ive always done and gives me time to drink, measure hops, sanitize things and whatever else I need to do prior to my boil.

I suspect that would work out just fine. You don't need to do all that but it's not hurting anything.

I use a basket and I recirculate sometimes if I feel like it. After the mash I raise the basket up slowly and let it drain and I place a couple sticks on top of the pot to hold the basket. I hold back anywhere from .5 to 1 gallon of fresh water from the mash and use that to rinse the grains and then push down on the bag with a small bowl to push out as much water as I can.
It works pretty well and doesn't take very long.

Drawback I see is lots of work. I do full volume mash and get 75%+ mash efficiency verified by calculations and hit target volumes and gravities calculating an overall efficiency of 75%. If you're wanting to do all the extra work of holding the basket with the bag in it above the kettle and rinse grains with the remaining volume go for it, I just think its way too much work for brew in a bag.

Well newnick I do agree its more work but I am about 80% complete with a stand alone biab rig complete with electric hoist and arm. So the added work isnt much more. Im just more or less hoping the vorlauf gives clearer beer and the sparge better efficiency.

Sounds like your well on your way and it should work out just fine. I read as many posts and looked at many pictures as I could before I rigged up my system and it sounds like you've put alot of thought and work into yours. Let us know how it works and if your beer comes out how you want it to.

Just-a-sip said:

or is this whole thing just complicating a simple method?

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IMHO yes, you are merely trying to complicate a simple process for an intangible benefit. But if it makes you happy, have at it!

That said, I am a proponent of simple BIAB, add water to pot, heat to strike, add grain and bag and stir, insulate pot and let mash for an hour, stir well and remove bag, boil, cool, ferment and enjoy...

Durty, I know what your talking about. I started simple and have complicated it some but I like working on stuff. The main thing is we're happy with what we do and the beer tastes good.

I have not had success with this method/process.

You have to have a very coarse bag and a very coarse "false bottom" to get the grain and bag to drain fast enough. Also, only grinding one time is a must.
Otherwise you have to stop the pump every 5-10 minutes and stir and let the bag drain or you will have burned wort and that is with the pump running at trickle.

Ask me how I know this

See my other posts and my post about using a stir motor.

Or ... as other suggested... dont complicate it

thanks Kevin

I thought about that, but thought I was just taking away from BIAB's biggest advantage....it's simplicity. The last batch I did, I didn't even do a mashout. I still do drain and squeeze the bag though.



PS: Go Preds! :rockin:

Haeffnkr, how do you know this?

Im just more or less hoping the vorlauf gives clearer beer and the sparge better efficiency.

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My feedback would be that you can probably skip the vorlauf step. I recirculate through the mash as you described and get 85% efficiency; the crush will make the difference.

To be clear (no pun intended) the vorlauf won't make your beer any clearer; it will make your wort clearer, but all the extra grain dust will fall out during fermentation so your beer will be fine.

I you like clear beer check out using Irish Moss/Whirlfloc during the boil or gelatin at the end of fermentation.

Cheers

newnick said:

Haeffnkr, how do you know this?

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I meant dont ask me how I know...oops.

Been there ... done that
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f244/ebiab-pump-bag-material-418053/


thanks Kevin

Ok you guys convinced me... keep it traditional and simple . Im still finishing my hoist rig but a simple drain and squeeze will be all. Thanks guys.

haeffnkr said:

I meant dont ask me how I know...oops.

Been there ... done that
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f244/ebiab-pump-bag-material-418053/


thanks Kevin

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Thanks for the link. I read a post recently about a traditional AG setup where the brewer collapsed his false bottom recirculating. To date I haven't had a problem recirculating, not that I won't, but if I did I would certainly reconsider doing it because it is more work and I have had good luck when I don't recirculate. I have a spray head mounted inside the lid that acts like a valve downstream of the pump restricting the flow along with the basket which sits off the bottom a couple of inches. I don't think I would have a problem loosing suction or cavitating the pump. I also use a small 12 volt pump rather than a large pump. I also get the grains double crushed to help with effiecency. I plan on trying it out with just a regular crush sometime to see how it works hopefully reducing the dust that ends up in the fermentor.
My goal is to get more consistant, but it's not really working to well. Some batches the gravity is lower than expected some are higher, not that it's a big deal or anything but it's how everyone measures effectiveness, I guess.
Someday I will need a hoist as well cause the bag and the basket are pretty heavy. Wouldn't recirculating be considered a constant vorlouf?

newnick said:

Thanks for the link. I read a post recently about a traditional AG setup where the brewer collapsed his false bottom recirculating. To date I haven't had a problem recirculating, not that I won't, but if I did I would certainly reconsider doing it because it is more work and I have had good luck when I don't recirculate. I have a spray head mounted inside the lid that acts like a valve downstream of the pump restricting the flow along with the basket which sits off the bottom a couple of inches. I don't think I would have a problem loosing suction or cavitating the pump. I also use a small 12 volt pump rather than a large pump. I also get the grains double crushed to help with effiecency. I plan on trying it out with just a regular crush sometime to see how it works hopefully reducing the dust that ends up in the fermentor.
My goal is to get more consistant, but it's not really working to well. Some batches the gravity is lower than expected some are higher, not that it's a big deal or anything but it's how everyone measures effectiveness, I guess.
Someday I will need a hoist as well cause the bag and the basket are pretty heavy. Wouldn't recirculating be considered a constant vorlouf?

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If you aren't milling your own grains, blame the one who does. My efficiency is pretty consistent with the exception of wheat or rye where my efficiency goes down, as documented by other brewers as well.

Last couple of batches have been 20 points high, if this keeps up I might just go back to a single crush.

newnick said:

Last couple of batches have been 20 points high, if this keeps up I might just go back to a single crush.

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Either that or reduce the amount of grain to account for the extra efficiency....or you could just learn to like beers with higher ABV.