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**BrewKnurd** · 06-19-2012, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aygov

You obviously aren't a fan of the NBA or the NFL then...

So a while ago I was thinking about the whole NBA thing, and how much people flop to draw a charge, and yet we (by we, i mean the american sports watching population) don't seem to hold that against them as much as soccer players diving.

The one difference I came up with is that flopping in basketball is more of a risk/reward proposition. You flop and get the call, great. You flop and don't get it, you're getting dunked on. Meanwhile, many dives in soccer come in situations where the guy has either lost the ball or is clearly about to.

**Reno_eNVy** · 06-19-2012, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joker

Cooper and Boyd turn and look and don't even move toward the ball.

That may be due to instruction from their managers. They are both target men and are expected to be at full stamina when the appropriate time comes. If a target man runs down every ball then they will be winded by the time that perfect pass comes and may reduce their percentage of success.

Running their faces off and chasing down 50/50 balls isn't really their job. Leave that to the wingers and middies.

Plus, when you look at the stature of Cooper and Boyd compared to wingers and middie, they seem pretty behemoth.

EDIT:

Cooper -- 6'3", wiiiiide stature
Boyd -- 6'1", built like a line-backer
Perlaza -- 5'10", built like a sprinter

Joker · 06-19-2012, 05:42 PM

Very good point Reno. In watching them it seems to me they are more worried about wrestling with the defender guarding them rather than making space to be available. Although all this probably stems from the fact that I am frustrated about our lack of goals and of course wins.

**Reno_eNVy** · 06-19-2012, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joker

Very good point Reno. In watching them it seems to me they are more worried about wrestling with the defender guarding them rather than making space to be available.

Indeed they are, especially since they're almost always guarded by the best center back. Their tactics usually involve receiving the ball with their backs to the goal and using their size to power themselves to a shot-worthy position.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joker

Although all this probably stems from the fact that I am frustrated about our lack of goals and of course wins.

Joker · 06-19-2012, 06:54 PM

Thanks bro I needed that.

aygov · 06-19-2012, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrewKnurd

The one difference I came up with is that flopping in basketball is more of a risk/reward proposition. You flop and get the call, great. You flop and don't get it, you're getting dunked on. Meanwhile, many dives in soccer come in situations where the guy has either lost the ball or is clearly about to.

I think it comes down to how much you have to sell it in soccer. What's more noticeable? A guy who goes down and then gets right back up, or a guy who goes down clutching some appendage in agony as if he has been shot? In the NBA you can flop for a foul and get right back up with a wry smile on your face. It seems to be in soccer that if you're not rolling around on the ground it probably wasn't a foul...

**BrewKnurd** · 06-19-2012, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aygov

I think it comes down to how much you have to sell it in soccer. What's more noticeable? A guy who goes down and then gets right back up, or a guy who goes down clutching some appendage in agony as if he has been shot? In the NBA you can flop for a foul and get right back up with a wry smile on your face. It seems to be in soccer that if you're not rolling around on the ground it probably wasn't a foul...

Well, that's certainly true. The after the fact theatrics in soccer are unparalleled. I was just thinking in terms of the actual dive, but you raise an excellent point.

aygov · 06-19-2012, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrewKnurd

Well, that's certainly true. The after the fact theatrics in soccer are unparalleled. I was just thinking in terms of the actual dive, but you raise an excellent point.

I would agree with the fact that a lot of the time simulation occurs in soccer when you've had the ball taken off you. In the NBA there seems to be a bit more karma in the game for people that fall down too easily. If a striker dives in a game they really aren't leaving a whole in defense or anything like that so you're free to get back up and try again.

**Reno_eNVy** · 06-19-2012, 07:56 PM

Wow I like the rhetoric going on in here.

You should also key in how the different sports determine a foul.

In basketball a slap to the arm during a shot earns free-throws, almost guaranteed points but a small fraction of the overall score.

In soccer, two players can be knocking the hell out of each other as long as their arms are at their sides and they are parallel and thus no hits from behind. But if an attacker feels an arm come out or gets nudged a bit from behind, taking a chance on a dive can result in excellent fk placement or even a pk, which can completely change the outcome of a game. And if it doesn't work you only have one player unable to defend but doesn't matter because the attack starts so far away from the goal. Worst case scenario you get booked for simulation but the potential outcome is worth the risk, similar to a defender getting book for intentionally fouling a player in open space that could start a dangerous attack.

**Reno_eNVy** · 06-19-2012, 08:38 PM

England 1-0 Ukraine

Way to go, you limey bastards!