Get your HBT Growlers, Shirts and Membership before the Rush!


Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Electric Brewing > Electric kettle and hot break
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 12-14-2010, 03:41 PM   #11
wildwest450
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 9,099
Liked 166 Times on 151 Posts
Likes Given: 4

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CodeRage View Post
Think it's a wattage thing. at 4500W in my BK the hot break never got too crazy. Once I put a 5500 in there it started to become more of an issue.
If that's the case, why do I have to turn it down below half when the boil starts?
__________________
wildwest450 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-14-2010, 03:53 PM   #12
Boerderij_Kabouter
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Boerderij_Kabouter's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Oconomowoc, Wisconsin
Posts: 8,461
Liked 125 Times on 104 Posts
Likes Given: 11

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildwest450 View Post
If that's the case, why do I have to turn it down below half when the boil starts?
I may have found the reason you are not having huge boil overs...

If you want a big sticky mess, just leave that sucker cranked up. One of the great things about e-brewing is dialing in the energy so you don't have to deal with boil overs.
Boerderij_Kabouter is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-14-2010, 04:20 PM   #13
SweetSounds
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Des Moines, Iowa
Posts: 1,429
Liked 19 Times on 18 Posts
Likes Given: 4

Default

A little OT, but what exactly IS the definition of the Hot Break? Is it the start of the foaming? Or when it doesn't foam anymore with the same power applied?

Could go to answering WW's question...

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecnerwal View Post
What does the primary pressure gauge on the tank tell us? That's right, the temperature. Put it on a scale if you want to know how much is in it...
Put some duct tape over the gauge - Or better yet - Replace the high pressure gauge with a plug - High pressure gauges are useless!
SweetSounds is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-14-2010, 05:29 PM   #14
wildwest450
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 9,099
Liked 166 Times on 151 Posts
Likes Given: 4

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boerderij_Kabouter View Post
I may have found the reason you are not having huge boil overs...

If you want a big sticky mess, just leave that sucker cranked up. One of the great things about e-brewing is dialing in the energy so you don't have to deal with boil overs.
BK, I do leave full power on until 3/4 of foam is gone. It will foam up an inch or two then start to dissipate, that's when you either turn it down or have boiling wort flying out of the kettle.

I'm not complaining that it doesn't boilover, just wondering why the hot break is considerably smaller than my propane one.
__________________
wildwest450 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-14-2010, 05:37 PM   #15
CodeRage
Death by Magumba!
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
CodeRage's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Melbourne, Fl
Posts: 2,254
Liked 33 Times on 18 Posts
Likes Given: 5

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildwest450 View Post
If that's the case, why do I have to turn it down below half when the boil starts?
When the water starts to boil it goes through a phase change (liquid to gas). During that process heat energy is being stored in the water as latent heat of vaporization. Roughly that means it take X amount of energy to get the water to 100C, the water will stay at 100C until another Y amount of heat energy is absorbed by the water. The amount of energy required to change 100C water to steam is SIGNIFICANTLY more than the total amount of energy required to get liquid water from 0C to 100C.

The reason why you need to drop the output once the boil start is because the water now has enough heat energy in it to overcome the latent heat thresh hold for vaporization phase change. Think of it like a heat capacitor. Once you've reached this point you can reduce your heat input enough to overcome what ever heat loss the system is under, any surplus energy is transfered into steam.


The hot break is when some of the proteins begin to congeal, or bond together, and when the boil starts these proteins stick to the bubbles surface. The protein bubbles don't dissipate like water and accumulate to form a nice frothy boil over.
__________________
Brutus 20e build | Electrical Primer for Brewers | Auber SYL-2362A2 PID Install & Config
So as I am walking out the door this morning I think to my self:
"self, going to work on Monday is like knowing you're going to get kicked in the nuts. You just don't know when or by who"
CodeRage is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-14-2010, 05:41 PM   #16
CodeRage
Death by Magumba!
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
CodeRage's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Melbourne, Fl
Posts: 2,254
Liked 33 Times on 18 Posts
Likes Given: 5

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildwest450 View Post
BK, I do leave full power on until 3/4 of foam is gone. It will foam up an inch or two then start to dissipate, that's when you either turn it down or have boiling wort flying out of the kettle.

I'm not complaining that it doesn't boilover, just wondering why the hot break is considerably smaller than my propane one.
Cause your propane burner is putting in much more heat energy creating more steam bubbles. So the protein bubbles on the top build much quicker than they dissipate and viola, boil over.
__________________
Brutus 20e build | Electrical Primer for Brewers | Auber SYL-2362A2 PID Install & Config
So as I am walking out the door this morning I think to my self:
"self, going to work on Monday is like knowing you're going to get kicked in the nuts. You just don't know when or by who"
CodeRage is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-14-2010, 05:47 PM   #17
SweetSounds
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Des Moines, Iowa
Posts: 1,429
Liked 19 Times on 18 Posts
Likes Given: 4

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CodeRage View Post
The hot break is when some of the proteins begin to congeal, or bond together, and when the boil starts these proteins stick to the bubbles surface. The protein bubbles don't dissipate like water and accumulate to form a nice frothy boil over.
Right - I got that part, but have you achieved Hot break when it starts to foam? Or is Hot Break achieved when the proteins are no longer strong enough to cause the foaming?

I can turn down the heat to a nice boil after the foam starts, and prevent a boil over. But adding heat causes the foam again. Have I then "Hot Broken"?
Because I can leave the heat where it is and let it foam away, and after a few minutes the foam will subside on its own (It was a 10g batch in a 20g pot )
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecnerwal View Post
What does the primary pressure gauge on the tank tell us? That's right, the temperature. Put it on a scale if you want to know how much is in it...
Put some duct tape over the gauge - Or better yet - Replace the high pressure gauge with a plug - High pressure gauges are useless!
SweetSounds is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-14-2010, 05:52 PM   #18
CodeRage
Death by Magumba!
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
CodeRage's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Melbourne, Fl
Posts: 2,254
Liked 33 Times on 18 Posts
Likes Given: 5

Default

I always though hot break was when then proteins formed, like just before the boil my bk looks like egg drop soup sometimes.

Maybe its when all of the proteins have broken down and you can turn the boil up with out it foaming over. That would make sense to me

__________________
Brutus 20e build | Electrical Primer for Brewers | Auber SYL-2362A2 PID Install & Config
So as I am walking out the door this morning I think to my self:
"self, going to work on Monday is like knowing you're going to get kicked in the nuts. You just don't know when or by who"
CodeRage is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-14-2010, 05:56 PM   #19
SweetSounds
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Des Moines, Iowa
Posts: 1,429
Liked 19 Times on 18 Posts
Likes Given: 4

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CodeRage View Post
I always though hot break was when then proteins formed, like just before the boil my bk looks like egg drop soup sometimes.

Maybe its when all of the proteins have broken down and you can turn the boil up with out it foaming over. That would make sense to me
I'm glad I'm not the only one that's confused by this
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecnerwal View Post
What does the primary pressure gauge on the tank tell us? That's right, the temperature. Put it on a scale if you want to know how much is in it...
Put some duct tape over the gauge - Or better yet - Replace the high pressure gauge with a plug - High pressure gauges are useless!
SweetSounds is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-14-2010, 06:04 PM   #20
Boerderij_Kabouter
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Boerderij_Kabouter's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Oconomowoc, Wisconsin
Posts: 8,461
Liked 125 Times on 104 Posts
Likes Given: 11

Default

The hot "break" is when the coagulated proteins are degraded and no longer stuck together in huge chains. Thus, the foam is significantly less stable and we no longer have to be uber worried about boil overs. The proteins are stuck together during the mash and early stages of the boil, and are broken down by the increased energy in the boil. At least that is my memory of how it works. I haven't read a brewing text book in a while, and like three-dimensional calculus, what we don't use, we don't remember.

__________________
2P-Twent-E Simple Brew DITCHES 1 DITCHES 2 Fermentolagertaporator side-by-side ferm Twelve Hopostles Labels
Boerderij_Kabouter is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply



Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
55 gallon electric brew kettle Brewvy Electric Brewing 17 03-09-2014 06:14 AM
Whirlpool in Electric Kettle? Quaffer Electric Brewing 41 12-15-2013 02:14 AM
Electric Kettle for frying? rtt121 Electric Brewing 3 12-06-2010 01:59 AM
3E Brewery going ELECTRIC!!! EuBrew Electric Brewing 17 10-28-2010 06:12 PM
Electric Kettle Instructions tdiowa Electric Brewing 24 03-07-2010 11:08 PM



Newest Threads

LATEST SPONSOR DEALS