I was about to suggest the same - check the wiring that there hasn't been a cross over in your control box for the element swapping one hot for the nuetral.
eKettle stuck at 199F
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I was about to suggest the same - check the wiring that there hasn't been a cross over in your control box for the element swapping one hot for the nuetral.
cgherrington3
Well-Known Member
965 btu to change 1 pound of water to 1 pound of steam. It's only 1 btu to raise 1 pound of water 1 degree Farhenheit.
Coming out of my control panel, we're measuring 240v on my "dumb" meter, which I use mostly to make sure there's no power when I need to work on something. I'm starting to think there's an issue with the 10-3 cable to my element.
cgherrington3
Well-Known Member
watcha got at the element?
BadWolfBrewing
Well-Known Member
I'm really wondering what the problem is now.
Me too. We'll find out shortly when I get home. My electrician friend will be home next week so we can troubleshoot more. I'll keep everyone up to date.
Ohms, volts, everything looks great. I found the issue with the wall outlet direct to element - I was only running 110v, but that still doesn't explain the issue going through the control panel. But I found some water in my element connection box so I'm going to wait until it dries to test more - won't be able to do anything until next week.
The only way I can figure to use my bare element enclosure with a soldered in welding spud is to make the seal between the element threads and spud with teflon tape rather than a gasket. The only thing you'd use the gasket for is to space the enclosure away from the spud if the threads mesh too soon for direct spud to enclosure contact.
Huh? That post just confused me - when did the wall outlets come into the picture? I know someone mentioned to check it straight in the wall but you said you couldn't????
Do you have a wiring diagram?
Epimetheus
Well-Known Member
Out of the control panel you measured 240V but at the wall outlet you measured 110V? That is not making sense. Either it was wired wrong, measured wrong, or described oddly.
Exactly! If the electrical parts are working correctly and it still will not boil, I have one word for you:
Lots of insulation
Exactly! If the electrical parts are working correctly and it still will not boil, I have one word for you:
Lots of insulation
It came into the picture when I plugged directly in, I said that earlier. As mentioned, I wired directly to the wall incorrectly.
I'll test more on Sunday, but I should be able to get a boil out of the wall - the control panel is another question but I'm reading 240v out of it, so no idea what's going on.
BadWolfBrewing
Well-Known Member
thats 3 words 
insulation or not, 5.5kW would boil the crap out of 6 gallons. I have a 5.5 kW element on a 208 circuit, so its only supplying 75% of rated power. In a giant stainless stout-tanks brew kettle with no insulation, I can still boil the crap out of 6g. I mean VIOLENT boil.
Please double check the following, when you get a chance.
Voltage between 2 hot legs at the heating element is 240V, with the PID in 100% mode. The resistance between the 2 hot legs is somewhere around 10.5 ohms.
Be careful when checking hot wires... also, if you are getting water in your enclosure box, that needs to be fixed ASAP.
insulation or not, 5.5kW would boil the crap out of 6 gallons. I have a 5.5 kW element on a 208 circuit, so its only supplying 75% of rated power. In a giant stainless stout-tanks brew kettle with no insulation, I can still boil the crap out of 6g. I mean VIOLENT boil.
Please double check the following, when you get a chance.
Voltage between 2 hot legs at the heating element is 240V, with the PID in 100% mode. The resistance between the 2 hot legs is somewhere around 10.5 ohms.
Be careful when checking hot wires... also, if you are getting water in your enclosure box, that needs to be fixed ASAP.
processhead
Well-Known Member
Measuring only the voltage going to the element can sometimes be misleading.
To get the complete picture on the element, ask if your electrician if he can loan you a clamp on ammeter.
To develop the element's rated 5500 watts of power you should measure 240 volts and ~22 amps.
To get the complete picture on the element, ask if your electrician if he can loan you a clamp on ammeter.
To develop the element's rated 5500 watts of power you should measure 240 volts and ~22 amps.
So, some update.
The electrician friend brought over an amp-clamp and we did some testing - the element is only drawing half the expected amperage of a 5500w element. We couldn't figure out where, but it looks like the SSR is only outputting HALF of what's going in for voltage. We're not sure if it's the PID, but no amount of adjusting the output on it will increase the load, only lower it. He's bringing a spare SSR tomorrow to see if that's the issue, if not, I'll have to engage Auber in getting a replacement - if that's possible, given how old it is. Anyone have some ideas/input?
The electrician friend brought over an amp-clamp and we did some testing - the element is only drawing half the expected amperage of a 5500w element. We couldn't figure out where, but it looks like the SSR is only outputting HALF of what's going in for voltage. We're not sure if it's the PID, but no amount of adjusting the output on it will increase the load, only lower it. He's bringing a spare SSR tomorrow to see if that's the issue, if not, I'll have to engage Auber in getting a replacement - if that's possible, given how old it is. Anyone have some ideas/input?
Was thinking maybe a dc ssr, but don't know if that would show up with 1/2 the current with ac or if it would just blow up.
It really seems like the element is only getting 120vac (which is what you are saying with the half-output?). Can you post the wiring diagram as that would be the first thing to check.
Also what exactly do you mean by the ssr is only outputting half the input? Does anything change if you remove the ssr and tie the two wires it was switching together, I.e. the time to boil / strength improve? If it does something is deffinately up with that ssr.
dtetreault
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Looks like the SSR is only passing one half of each AC cycle.
processhead
Well-Known Member
You can disconnect the two power leads from the SSR and temporarily connect those wires to each other.
This effectively bypasses the SSR and should deliver full power to the element when you power up the system.
This test will either confirm or rule out a defective SSR.
This effectively bypasses the SSR and should deliver full power to the element when you power up the system.
This test will either confirm or rule out a defective SSR.
But this won't tell me if the problem is the SSR or the PID, correct?
Sure it will. The PID can't tell the SSR anything but turn on or turn off.
So I disconnect the two leads coming from the PID and twist them together to test the SSR?
No, you disconnect the power wires going into and out of the ssr. Then use a wire nut (or twist and electrical tape, just make sure it is good and tight) to connect those together, then power it up - it will be the same as if the PID is at 100%. Then test with the amp meter.
Do you have a wiring diagram or could you sketch one up for us, having one would make trouble shooting this a bit easier.
OK, just wanted to make sure. Here's the wiring schematic - http://www.ebrewsupply.com/designs/PID/30a-PID-1-2-1PID-Electric-BIAB.pdf
BadWolfBrewing
Well-Known Member
Sounds like it's a bad ssr. They consist of two antiparallel SCRs. If one failed open, like they do, you will only be getting a half wave of the ac current to the load.
SSR is fine, or maybe not.
Basically, on Thursday, we were putzing around with it and we moved the outH from 100 to 220 to see if it increased the power - was a no go. We had messed with it a few hours and he decided to bring a SSR the next day to troubleshoot that. Well, before installing the SSR, he decided to set the outH to 200 and BAM - we were boiling in about 10 minutes (only had 4 gallons in it.)
So either the PID is screwed up and won't run 100% power unless outH is at 200% or I don't know. Regardless, we're heating now.
processhead
Well-Known Member
Sounds like one of your pid parameters was misadjusted.
Not positive, but outH may have been a max. temperature limit.
Make a note of it now... for 2 years from now when you have totally forgotten what that parameter does.
Not positive, but outH may have been a max. temperature limit.
Make a note of it now... for 2 years from now when you have totally forgotten what that parameter does.
While I understand what you're saying, per Auber's manual -
4.12 Output range limits OUTL and OUTH
OUTL and OUTH allow you set the output range low and high limit.
OUTL is a useful feature for a system that needs to have a minimum amount
of power as long as the controller is powered. e.g. If OUTL=20, the controller
will maintain a minimum of 20% power output even when input sensor failed.
OUTH can be used when you have an overpowered heater to control a small
subject. e.g. If you set the OUTH=50, the 5000 watt heater will be used as
2500W heater (50%) even when the PID wants to send 100% output.
Hell, the thing even says 110% is the max - which is obviously false. Also, if it was temperature, I would have never pushed to 200F like before - it would have stuck at 100F. http://auberins.com/images/Manual/SYL-2342.pdf
I'm going to open a support case with them just to figure out what the heck is going on with the outH.
I don't know how the code in the PID would handle an overscale value - it might of overflowed the value meaning setting it at 220% was the same as setting it to (say maybe) 25%. Return outH to 100% would be my suggestion.
Good idea raising it with Auber, let us know their response
processhead
Well-Known Member
Agree.
I would like to hear Auber's explanation of what you are seeing.
I would like to hear Auber's explanation of what you are seeing.
LandoLincoln
Well-Known Member
You would think that OUTL and OUTH would be a range only between 0 and 100. Why can one even be able to set it to 220?
Rambunctious
Well-Known Member
Sounds like the perfect kettle to create a still with.. Sorry could not resist.
jCOSbrew
Well-Known Member
No, to bypass pid connect 12v directly to control leads of ssr.
To bypass ssr jumper 8ga wire from ssr ac input to ac output. You should have full power to element and measure 220v at connector to element. You should also have very low voltage drop across ssr.
One phase of 220v is controlled by ssr and the other phase is connected directly to element, correct?
To bypass ssr jumper 8ga wire from ssr ac input to ac output. You should have full power to element and measure 220v at connector to element. You should also have very low voltage drop across ssr.
One phase of 220v is controlled by ssr and the other phase is connected directly to element, correct?
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