Pub Brewery oportunity

might have the opportunity to collaborate with pub owners to do a small batch in-house brewery, what system to go with? Morebeer, Sabco or a DIY BCS or Troller controlled system based on the B10?

Thanks

I think another option to look at, especially for repeatable results would be the brewmation. www.brewmation.com
Its comparable in price to the other systems and highly automated.

Hope it works out for you.
Josh

thanks!

I bought my brewmation because I hope some day it would serve as you mention. Loving it. You can check out my thread if you like. Careful, it's long winded:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/br...-but-comparisons-163149/?highlight=brewmation

I think it's wise to understand that basing a business off of a 1/2 Bbl system is very hard to do. If you have one tap or two at the pub, that's cool, but if you're trying to do 10 continuous taps.... change your name to Egor! IMO - One of the reasons I think the B3 system is better than a Brew-Magic. Cause you can use different size kettles. But for the price, the brewmation is a better deal.

Having said that, one of the owners of a brewmation has a restaurant in Colorado that he brews for and loves it. I did buy mine for the same reason and also because it fit into my life (volume and space wise), but if I were going into business right now and that was my main reason for the purchase, I'd go with at least a 55 gal system. Fortunately, Kevin from Brewmation makes different sizes up to 2.5 Bbl so if the whole automated electric brewery sounds good to you, check him out. Great with support.

I think an electric system for a small pub outfit is a no brainer. Especially because of code (it's just a kitchen appliance basically - no gas) and certainly because of automation.

EDIT: Although, admittedly a Brewmation is not as pretty as a big copper monstrosity.

Bullywee, you might check out a www.basicbrewing.com podcast from a few weeeks ago, an interview with someone doing what you are considering.

We too are looking at setting up a small brewery in a local pizza place. We have talked a lot about what size and type of system we could use. At this point we are leaning towards a 1.0-1.5 bbl system that will be a DYI system. I think we also like the BCS-460 and Blichmann 55 gallon brew pots too. The two problems I see with the brewmation are: 1. it is to small. 2. It isn't all that attractive. The fermenters seem to be the most challenging. We need temp control and something that is close to 100 gallons. That gets expensive. We may go with DIY fermenters housed in individual freezers that we control with another BCS unit.

I'd love some input and ideas if anyone has them. Sometimes it seems like the more you think about this stuff the more you get fixated on just a few options.

A brewery started up in nearby Sitka with a Sabco system in May or June... within a month or so they upgraded to Blichmann's 55 gallon kettles because 10 gallon keggle batches weren't cutting it demand wise. At the very least think 1BBL, ideally more.

It all depends on what you are going to do, if you are talking only 1 or 2 taps, a 15 gallon batch will be fine, however history has shown that once it takes off, it will drastically need to be upgraded to bigger batches.

Also depends on how much time you have, if you are doing this on the side, then yes you will need a bigger set-up. IF you are doing it full time, a smaller one will work, but you will be using it more.

Dogfish Head brewed on a 10 gallon system for the 1st year he was in business at his brew pup, so it is possible.

Josh

Josh - I like your Avatar. I'm sure you've heard the joke about what a Shorts 330 looks like. 2 Cessnas screwing a toaster.

We think a BRUTUS type system will allow us to brew 3 batches a day. When we get the first one in the kettle we can be mashing the second. Then at the completion of the 3rd batch we will add yeast and ferment away. We can add fermenters as the need arises. Each fermenter should allow us to do 75 bbls minimum annually. If we allow 1 week for fermentation and then transfer to a tank to crash cool, clarify, dry hop, ect we can get closer to 150 bbls per year per fermenter.

pnh2atl said:

Josh - I like your Avatar.

Click to expand...

You have too much time on your hands. Can I have some?

chefmike said:

You have too much time on your hands. Can I have some?

Click to expand...

It ain't cheap.

pnh2atl said:

We may go with DIY fermenters housed in individual freezers that we control with another BCS unit.

Click to expand...

or use the bcs 462 and just run lines. I still think we could use the room in question with a low ambient temp and a glycol rig. I have some thoughts. and some equipment.

I see opinions on both sides here, so I'd like to put in my plug for getting a system slightly larger than you think you'll need right off the bat. The way I see it, once you get the business up and running, you'll have plenty of other stresses to worry about besides making sure you're making your hop additions during the dinner rush (brewing 3 times a day, it could happen!)

No preference as to system, but if you design and build your own system and are hands on through the entire process, you'll know how to fix that mother like no one else's business should the need arise!

there are 3 'brewers" involved, we brew together now and hope to realize a dream together. The opportunity is on our doorstep! A 20-31 Gal Electric RIMS or HEMS system seems to be the way to go. Thanks for the advice. Anymore is appreciated.

Cheers
Bullywee

The way the economy has been the last few years you should be looking at used systems that you could probably buy for a lot less than you would think. Here is one place to start looking http://probrewer.com/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?forumid=26

Screw the system you use. It doesn't matter except for one thing.
Will your beer be consistent.

Will every dollar spent equal the quality that is being paid for?
Will you have repeat business?
Will your beer taste the same EVERY TIME it is Poured?

if not.
You'll fail.
Simple as that.

thataintchicken said:

Screw the system you use. It doesn't matter except for one thing.
Will your beer be consistent.

Will every dollar spent equal the quality that is being paid for?
Will you have repeat business?
Will your beer taste the same EVERY TIME it is Poured?

if not.
You'll fail.
Simple as that.

Click to expand...

Correct. The main reason I think an automated electric system is perfect. Repeatability.

pnh2atl said:

We too are looking at setting up a small brewery in a local pizza place. We have talked a lot about what size and type of system we could use. At this point we are leaning towards a 1.0-1.5 bbl system that will be a DYI system. I think we also like the BCS-460 and Blichmann 55 gallon brew pots too. The two problems I see with the brewmation are: 1. it is to small. 2. It isn't all that attractive. The fermenters seem to be the most challenging. We need temp control and something that is close to 100 gallons. That gets expensive. We may go with DIY fermenters housed in individual freezers that we control with another BCS unit.

Click to expand...

I mentioned before that there are bigger brewmations available, currently up to 2.5 Bbl (or whatever... he's basically a DIYer that has a business DIY'ing and will do custom anything).

Yes, if it is in a place that is where you want people to see it like you would a copper rig and not in the kitchen, I don't think it's pretty enough. But is a DIY Brutus that much prettier? I mean I know we all think Blichmann kettles are sexy, but does the average non-homebrewer person think that? I doubt it. They think they are probably just big stock pots (big whoop!).

We also agree on ferm chambers. I do a 7.2 cu ft with a Sanke fermenter w/ a LOVE controller. I can tell you it works AWESOME. I have two of them and can now brew every other weekend for a total of around 350 gal/yr if I brewed at that pace.

Good luck bullywee. If I were you and wanted to make my own DIY electrical system, I might still give Kevin a call to design the control box (if you aren't hip to electrical engineering/programming). He does a lot of control box only projects for people just like you. Personally, I wouldn't start a business on anything less than a 2-3 Bbl. That is if you hope to MAKE any money. You could sell that rig in a heartbeat if you had to, I think. Plenty of pubs would want it.

(FYI - Kevin did mention he did a 2.5 Bbl rig for someone and it was along the lines of $14k, if I remember correctly (don't quote me).)

thataintchicken said:

Screw the system you use. It doesn't matter except for one thing.
Will your beer be consistent.

Will every dollar spent equal the quality that is being paid for?
Will you have repeat business?
Will your beer taste the same EVERY TIME it is Poured?

if not.
You'll fail.
Simple as that.

Click to expand...

Pretty much disagree with this. Pliny The Elder is different every-time I've had it. The same with other craft beers. Drinkers of craft beers IMO expect that the beer is a non mass produced item and can deal with the changes that a BMC drinker might not be able to handle. It's just got to taste good, or in many cases the food in a pub rules and the beer just doesn't mess with it. Too many variables to give hard and fast rules.

I think your location is a huge variable. For us in GA we have two options. One is to open a stand alone brewery and sell through a distributor. The only other option is to open a brewpub where more than 50% of the sales must come from food. Other states have a lot more in the way of options for a brewer. For us that really limits the amount of beer we can sell. Both because it is limited to a single establishment and secondly because it has to stay under the 50% threshold.

I think our beer has to be good every time. It doesn't have to be exactly the same every time but it does have to be close.

BMC drinkers are another hurdle to get over. But that is a thread in itself.

samc said:

Pretty much disagree with this. Pliny The Elder is different every-time I've had it. The same with other craft beers. Drinkers of craft beers IMO expect that the beer is a non mass produced item and can deal with the changes that a BMC drinker might not be able to handle. It's just got to taste good, or in many cases the food in a pub rules and the beer just doesn't mess with it. Too many variables to give hard and fast rules.

Click to expand...

I 100% agree with samc. The beers don't have to be exactley the same each and every time. They do have to be close, but not spot on like a BMC beer. I'd also go as far as saying that craft beer drinkers know that is the case since there are so many variables that go into making a beer with taste.

As far as the system size goes, I'd make sure the system has the ability to at least make a whole keg (half barrel) at a time. No sense in brewing 2 batches to fill one keg.