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Old 02-10-2013, 08:02 PM   #11
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imo without the blind triangle test, the taste results will be incredibly biased.

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Old 02-10-2013, 08:21 PM   #12
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imo without the blind triangle test, the taste results will be incredibly biased.
Yep.
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Old 02-10-2013, 08:51 PM   #13
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Beer A and Beer B are put into groups of three half of which have 2 A's and the other half of which have 2 B's. These triplets are randomly assigned to panel members. Neither the server or the panel member knows which group his beer came from nor should he ever have been around the beer before so that, for example, if the OO beer comes out darker he would be unaware of this. Obviously, if it did the samples need to be placed in opaque cups so that the color difference can't be used to pick the odd beer.

The panelist is then told that he must pick the odd beer and that he must decide whether the odd beer is better than the others or not. If he can't decide he must flip a coin. If the olive oil beer is preferred (scores higher) than the other then the probability of getting that scoring by coin flipping (both wrt to choosing the different beer and preferring it) is computed and if that probability is low enough the null hypothesis is rejected and the OO beer declared better.

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Old 02-10-2013, 09:14 PM   #14
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Thanks, AJ.

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Old 02-10-2013, 09:20 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajdelange View Post
if the OO beer comes out darker he would be unaware of this. Obviously, if it did the samples need to be placed in opaque cups so that the color difference can't be used to pick the odd beer.
Not sure how in the world one would come out darker.

So we'll add that. I'm doing my taste tests as Single Blind. If you can do Double Blind or Triple Blind, do so. Then with the taste results, identify which taste test method you used.

If we have enough results, I can show the results by taste test type.

I think its more important to pick out whether you can taste OO. Some tests will be OO vs No Aeration. Others OO vs O2 tank. When they both come out with the same results, not sure flipping a coin of which tastes better shows anything - when they both taste equally good, bad, or average.

Made edits to the initial instructions to include "taste test method".
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Old 02-10-2013, 10:00 PM   #16
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I'm not suggesting that one beer will be darker or lighter but of course one exposed to oxygen probably will be darker. What I am trying to point out is that one must control for such things. Failure to do so likely impairs the statistical significance of any test result just as failure to do a double blind triangle test would.

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Old 02-10-2013, 10:30 PM   #17
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Quote:
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I'm not suggesting that one beer will be darker or lighter but of course one exposed to oxygen probably will be darker. What I am trying to point out is that one must control for such things. Failure to do so likely impairs the statistical significance of any test result just as failure to do a double blind triangle test would.
Hear, hear! I've done enough experiments wrong to have discovered how important it is to design and control the experiment in order for the result to be more vaild than an opinion.
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Old 02-12-2013, 02:14 PM   #18
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The triangle test in not complicated to run. I plan to do some triangle tests this weekend - with salt additions to a beer(s). I'll add the same amount of salt to two tasting glasses and none to a third, and then ask my panelist: A, can you pick the odd man out, B, do you like it better. This is a very simple way to set up a tasting, and it really helps to validate the findings. If the taster cannot correctly identify the odd beer out, that means there is no difference in whatever is tasted. If there can correctly identify the odd beer, then I will ask which do they prefer. If they don't pass A test, then there is no point in asking B.

If you are comparing your OO beer with a conventionally aerated beer via the triangle test method, if the tasters cannot correctly detect which of the three is different from the other two, then you know the OO method had no affect on the final product. If they can correctly pick it out, then you can ask which they prefer. To be even more confident, you can do the test again with the same person. If they can pick the odd beer again, you can be fairly sure the difference is real.

I want to find out what the threshold for tasting the effect of added salts is. 20 ppm? 60ppm? Is it the same for Cl- and SO4-. Once we get thresholds for both, then on to the blends with different ratios

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Old 02-12-2013, 02:28 PM   #19
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I think its more important to pick out whether you can taste OO. Some tests will be OO vs No Aeration. Others OO vs O2 tank. When they both come out with the same results, not sure flipping a coin of which tastes better shows anything - when they both taste equally good, bad, or average.

Made edits to the initial instructions to include "taste test method".
You won't taste the OO. To make that the goal, and not doing a triangle blind test would make the experiment relatively meaningless.

The goal should be to see if OO is indeed a good sub for aeration. In order to see if that happens, a triangle test should be done. Otherwise, the experiment would be invalid.
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Old 02-12-2013, 02:40 PM   #20
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I'm enjoying watching this thread swing around to same points made in the previous thread.

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