Brett and my equiptment

Well I'm sure this has been discussed and maybe even disputed a bit from both sides of the fence but I just dont know the answer to the question I have. Here is the situation I am brewing a saison next weekend with white labs wlp565 ( I know not really a wild ferment but bare with me ), I am going to to let that ferment as far as it will go then add Brett c in the secondary and let her ride for 3 months or so. Last night at my HBC meeting we had a "expert" at our meeting and he spoke about brewing with bacteria. His biggest advise was we didn't do it which I thought was quite odd but his reasoning was that it would infect our entire berwhouse and we would never be able to brew a standard brew again. He went as far as to say that if we insisted on doing any bacteria that we should do it in a completely different part of the house or outside as not to get any airborne bacteria in the house ( I have never heard this one before). He also said that we need to dedicate carboys, hoses , siphons, airlocks, bungs, kegs, taps etc....... infinum to the wild beers and bacteria as there is absolutely no way to sanitize or clean these after brett or other bacteria is added. Is any of this true ? I put alot of faith in this community and tend to believe you guys/gals over the "expert"

Frankly, it's hit or miss. I'd say he's advising you to be too cautious, but the end result CAN be that you get your whole system infected. In my experience, and friend's experiences, you can brew sours without any issue and switch back. To be fair, we were very cautious while doing it, and we even soaked fermenters in star san for a month or two when done, but no issues here. If you plan on doing a ton of sours, it might be pertinent to dedicate some equipment, just so you don't worry, as infection is possible. Just my opinion, though. Cheers!

Yeah he's being an alarmist. Some of this is just untrue. Airlocks will be fine. Plastic tubing I would sequester as well as siphons. Fermenters can be soaked for a while and most people don't have too much trouble. Kegs are stainless and can't be infected as long as good sanitation is observed. I ferment my sours and plains right next to each other and haven't had contamination.

Bit of a rambling, but in summary with good sanitation I believe he is full of crap.

To note, Cigar City Brewing ran their sour program out of their main setup and had no issues. Once they had the brewhouse at full capacity(recently) they stopped the sour program to keep things from possibly getting infected until they finish the new brewery(warehouse a few doors down). Once they have seperate facilities, I'd expect the sour program to return.

The point in this post is that even the pro's do sours in the same brewhouse and while there's still a risk, with PROPER SANITATION and a cautious awareness of tubing and siphons, you'll be fine.

brett isn't bacteria or sour, entirely different. bacteria i can kinda see, but brett isn't much harder to clean than normal sacch.

There was a good post I read on this a few days ago. To paraphrase, the person said basically what dcp27 is saying. Brett can hide in cracks and scratches in soft equipment - but so can regular saach yeast. The difference is, if you get lax in sanitation, and you have Brett that carries over to another batch unintentionally, you may notice it more than if you had a small bit of neutral ale yeast that carried over to another batch - due to the flavor characteristics of Brett.

Everything else I echo the above replies - boo @ the "expert" - don't fear Brett!

if you can sanitize for regular yeast, you can sanitize for brett. sometimes you have to be logical about these things.

that being said, i have separate "everything" for sours, brett, etc. and standard sacc beers - the idea that your entire brewhouse will be affected is an idea that is entirely counter to homebrewing. do it, sanitize, experiment, have fun.

on a beer related note, i don't know how much value from the brett you'll get after a saison yeast - those things are powerhouses and chew through a lot. there won't be any (or very little) left to chew on... if you insist (and you should), i'd make a brett starter and pitch it during (towards the end) fermentation so it can have an effect.

i have an imperial rye saison fermenting now with a WL yeast and when i checked the other day it was at 92% attenuation (1.074 to 1.006)... dryer than hoped technically but the grist bill gives it an inherit body...

do it, sanitize, experiment and have fun!

Aschecte said:

He also said that we need to dedicate carboys, hoses , siphons, airlocks, bungs, kegs, taps etc....... infinum to the wild beers and bacteria as there is absolutely no way to sanitize or clean these after brett or other bacteria is added. Is any of this true ? I put alot of faith in this community and tend to believe you guys/gals over the "expert"

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If he thinks Brett is a bacteria, he's not much of an expert. One thing he is for sure is an alarmist. Neither Brett nor bacteria are troublesome if you have good sanitation.

Also, Brett in secondary is typically pitched at low levels (no starter) because you want stressed yeast to give you flavor. The 565 will leave plenty for the Brett, and a gravity change is not necessarily required for Brett flavor formation.

I think the OP is the one that mistook brett as bacteria if anything. It seems that the seminar speaker was talking about souring organisms in general. Alarmist is a little much. I've had a barrel of various sour cultures in the basement for 6 years now and I have had a few unintentional contaminations without even mixing hardware.

Bobby_M said:

I think the OP is the one that mistook brett as bacteria if anything. It seems that the seminar speaker was talking about souring organisms in general. Alarmist is a little much. I've had a barrel of various sour cultures in the basement for 6 years now and I have had a few unintentional contaminations without even mixing hardware.

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Bobby

Nah not me brother I do understand the difference quite well. We had a Asian ( Saigon) brewer speak last night at my club meeting that brews solely with Brett and classified Brett as a bacteria I understand Brett is classified as a "true" yeast and a fungi. The "expert" went as far as to say that his beers were only for the super experiences and anyone else he strongly discouraged us even to try them ...... They were fuc***g lambics !!!! The guy was nice but a little high on his horse. I was posting this only as I trust this forum and felt this guy was way off but figured I'd ask those more experienced than I just in case.

Aschecte said:

Bobby

Nah not me brother I do understand the difference quite well. We had a Asian ( Saigon) brewer speak last night at my club meeting that brews solely with Brett and classified Brett as a bacteria I understand Brett is classified as a "true" yeast and a fungi. The "expert" went as far as to say that his beers were only for the super experiences and anyone else he strongly discouraged us even to try them ...... They were fuc***g lambics !!!! The guy was nice but a little high on his horse. I was posting this only as I trust this forum and felt this guy was way off but figured I'd ask those more experienced than I just in case.

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waaahh?? my bung is infected with bacteria???
keep your porous surfaces separate and you'll be fine.
oh i can't concentrate go lehigh!! go mountainhawks!!!! DOWN WITH DUKE!!!
DRINK LAMBI*CS!!!

Did anybody bother to ask this guy why he's concerned about the bacteria inside a carboy but not the same strains of bacteria on everything else in your house, on your body, on your equipment, etc.? It's not like brett, pedio, or lacto are secret strains of doom from another dimension. They are extremely common lifeforms.

ReverseApacheMaster said:

Did anybody bother to ask this guy why he's concerned about the bacteria inside a carboy but not the same strains of bacteria on everything else in your house, on your body, on your equipment, etc.? It's not like brett, pedio, or lacto are secret strains of doom from another dimension. They are extremely common lifeforms.

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i hope to god that you are not one more person that is telling me my bung is infected. ha ha jeter is out with a stiff left shaft...

ReverseApacheMaster said:

Did anybody bother to ask this guy why he's concerned about the bacteria inside a carboy but not the same strains of bacteria on everything else in your house, on your body, on your equipment, etc.? It's not like brett, pedio, or lacto are secret strains of doom from another dimension. They are extremely common lifeforms.

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awesome. STRAIN OF DOOM!!!! :rockin:

I have a lambic, a beer with wild yeast and.two clean brews all within 6 inches of eachother. I've had other clean batches sit next to my wild brews, never had an issue. The idea that if you sour you'll never be able to make a clean beer again is antiquated and the equivalent of the homebrew boogy man. Just have an extra siphon and tubing and you'll be fine as long as long as your sanitation is good you wont have a problem.

See? On the left is a lambic with roeselare. The middle is with wild yeast that has god knows what in it and the right is a clean IPA. I don't even airlock 90% of my brews. Why? Because yeast and bacteria aren't super ninja assassins that will run up the side of the carboy and karate chop through whatever you have on top.