rye questions

so, i'm dreaming big. (as always)
i'm doing my first a-g brew (kinda, it's a maxi-biab) on thursday, if all goes well. as such, i've been trying to read up on mashing and some of the science behind it. while that's been going on, my mom has been pushing me to brew a rye IPA, so i've been looking at brewing with rye.

back-story out of the way, here are the questions:
i know rye is usally used as a lesser part of the grain bill.
the wiki says "Rye Malt is fully modified. It performs well in a single temperature infusion mash if used at less than 20% of total grist."

the potential for rye shows as 1.030, whereas barley is 1.036 for 2-row and 1.035 for 6-row.

so my question is why don't people use more rye?
is it a flavor thing? just no demand for more rye taste in a beer? or is it a brewability (real word, i swear) thing?
what am i missing here?
(sorry if this has been covered thoroughly before, i'm having a hard time coming up with effective search criteria)

My 2nd AG brew was a roggenbier. half rye malt and half pilsner. huge mistake. The mash was like concrete, even with a half pound of rice hulls. Got about 2.5 gallons of wort from the first runnings but the sparge just was not happening. had to scoop out the mash to a bucket twice and basically wound up "sparging" through a big spaghetti strainer a little at a time. Total FUBAR mess.

If I had to do it again, I would have sparged with much hotter water to hopefully keep it flowing. maybe even a protein rest... I dunno...

anyway, rye is just one of those flavors that's just not super popular, plus the hassle of stuck sparges due to high protein and lack of husks, plus the unavailability of rye extracts, are my guesses as to why there's not more of it in homebrews.

I think, besides the sparge issues, that the flavor can be too intense if overused. I have only done one rye PA and used only a pound for a 10 gallon batch. The flavor was definitely there but I will double the rye next time.

i've never had a rye beer before, or used rye in brewing, so i was considering making a batch using just rye to see what it was like. sounds like a bad plan.

I would suggest trying a founders redrye pa,bear republics hot rod rye,or two brothers cane and ebel.But hotrod may be more available in your area.

I would link but its too hard on my phone. I used a terrapin rye clone recipe for my first batch. It was good but needed a bit more rye IMO.

bengerman - I would suggest EdWort's Rye IPA recipe. A great beer. Rye can be a litttle intense, but adds a nice spicyness, for lack of a better word, to a beer. I added a half pound of rice hulls to the mash, but I don't think they would have been necessary. I'm not sure why rye isn't more popular, I kind of like the flavor.

ruralbrew said:

bengerman - I would suggest EdWort's Rye IPA recipe. A great beer. Rye can be a litttle intense, but adds a nice spicyness, for lack of a better word, to a beer. I added a half pound of rice hulls to the mash, but I don't think they would have been necessary. I'm not sure why rye isn't more popular, I kind of like the flavor.

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Spicyness is a good word. I love the flavor. Just ordered 10 pounds of rye malt for some future brews.

so, to be sure i'm understanding right (which is very unlikely )
higher rye content in the mash makes the mash get to thick to be easily workable?
and the rice hulls loosen this up?

if that is correct, how does this translate to BIAB? i'm planning to do my next brew on the stovetop using the MAXI-BIAB method i've been reading about on BIAbrewers.

i did a 1 gal BIAB using 2 lbs rye (69%) had no problems' used 1/2 lb rice huls cam out good but i have nothing to compair it to having never tasted a rye beer

Sparging won't be an issue if you are doing BIAB, rice hulls may help keep the mash loose for easier stirring. But if you are doing a "full volume" mash w/ BIAB, then I would think the mash would stay pretty loose regardless.
In regards to rye, there is also flaked rye as an option or combination w/ malted rye.
And if you or your LHBS mills your grains, you might want to run it thru twice or tighten the mill down for the rye grains - they are smaller than other usual grains.
FWIW, I love rye beers - Edworts Rye IPA is a really nice recipe

what kinds of hops do people usually pair with ryes?
i just realized that i have a growler, so i might try a super-rye pale/ipa just as an experiment to hold me over till i have cash/space for a full batch

DustBow said:

Sparging won't be an issue if you are doing BIAB, rice hulls may help keep the mash loose for easier stirring. But if you are doing a "full volume" mash w/ BIAB, then I would think the mash would stay pretty loose regardless.
In regards to rye, there is also flaked rye as an option or combination w/ malted rye.
And if you or your LHBS mills your grains, you might want to run it thru twice or tighten the mill down for the rye grains - they are smaller than other usual grains.
FWIW, I love rye beers - Edworts Rye IPA is a really nice recipe

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flaked rye having less fermentables as compared to malted, so you'd get more rye flavor and less booze out of it?

Just from trying them, they go very well with a good ipa.So make an ipa with rye if you want an ipa.I am curious how a mild rye beer is though ive only had them in ipa and now i love ipa's even more.
you get more flavor using more rye,but mashing with rye flakes you still get fermentables,ive heard you get more spice. Do you have german or breiss? I didnt taste any spice in my breiss ryemalt just sampeling them maybe german is differnet

http://www.northernbrewer.com/brewing/northern-brewer-rye-malt-syrup.html

Just saw this. It would be nice if it were a higher percentage rye(like 100%), and left out the caramel, to give us more flexibility on how to use this extract. But still, it should be useful to somebody.

I've gotten a lot of flavor from unmalted rye. I get much more flavor from North American rye than imported stuff.

I just posted my American rye recipe. I use Summit and think the citrus notes work very well with the grainy, spicy rye. The yeast also works very well with the rest of the beer.

Denny's Wry Smile is a well known rye beer brewed by many homebrewers. He also has tested the new NB rye extract. Here is what he said over at the AHA forum.

Actually, I've been helping them test it! I've been really impressed. It's pale malt, rye malt, and 40 crystal. It so happens that the proportions are almost exactly right to make an extract version of my Rye IPA recipe. Add in some 60 crystal and some sugar, and it's really close.

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One of the best IPAs I have made to date was a Rye paired with Chinook! My grist was something like:
78% 2 row
20% Rye
2% Crystal 10

I then single hopped Chinook (which also brings a spiciness) throughout the boil and dry hop and boy did this beer turn out excellent!!!

well, against my better judgement and your advice, i'm giving it a shot.

here's the plan, my first ag, and i'm making it all up as i go along.

Recipe Type: All Grain
Yeast: wlp 320
Yeast Starter: Nope
Batch Size (Gallons): 2.7
Original Gravity: 1.054
Final Gravity: 1.014
IBU: 37.4
Boiling Time (Minutes): 90
Color: 7 srm
Primary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): till it's done
Secondary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): none


Ingredients Amount Item Type % or IBU
7.00 lb Rye Malt 100%
0.5 oz cascade (90 min) 7.5% AA 25.5 IBU
0.25 oz Cascade (60 min) 7.5% AA 11.9 IBU
0.25 oz Cascade (dry hop) 7.5% AA

Good for you. I have been experimenting with using "way too much" crystal lately. Advice is great but sometimes you just have to do your own thing. If you like it, nobody can tell you its not good. I would love to sample this one. Good luck.

Seven pounds of rye in a two and a half gallon batch? Yikes! I will be waiting for your tasting notes!
When I was going to brew my rye IPA (which I am brewing again today) I was talking to a guy at the LHBS. He said his brew-partner made an IPA with all rye as the base malt and it was tasty, but you almost had to scrape it off your tongue. This will be an interesting experiment, to say the least!

made a last-minute adjustment.
switched out the WLP320 for s-04.
stove going on in less than 5 minutes.

oh my god. i made a milkshake.
next time, 4 lbs irish moss.
pics to follow.
edit: pictures

it really is as opaque as it looks.

the good news is, though, that i pitched one packet of yeast right onto the cooled wort and it started bubbling within 5 minutes.

bengerman said:

oh my god. i made a milkshake.
next time, 4 lbs irish moss.
pics to follow.
edit: pictures

it really is as opaque as it looks.

the good news is, though, that i pitched one packet of yeast right onto the cooled wort and it started bubbling within 5 minutes.

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Don't worry, it will all settle out and turn into beer.

hopefully wonderful, wonderful beer.

there was no cold break, at all. is that a rye thing or did i most likely not chill it fast enough?

so, it still looks like mud.
still burbling, but still mud.
i'm thinking i'll use some gelatin in a few days to see if i can't get it to look like beer. if i do, would i need to pitch more yeast to bottle condition? or would there still be enough hanging out to carb them up?

also, i've been tryint o figure out how to get it less muddy next time around. it seems like a protein rest is the way to go. the big question is do the enzymes in rye work at roughly the same temps as the enzymes in barley? in other words, would i still do a protein rest around 122F for rye?

EDIT:
the lighting in the previous picture probably didn't show how "cloudy" this is.

My American rye was the only beer that gelatin did not help clear for me. I just decided to serve it cloudy and use WLP 320. It's better that way too.

it's only been a couple days, gotta give it way more time to see what happens

DustBow said:

it's only been a couple days, gotta give it way more time to see what happens

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I agree. No beer is gonna be clear 3 days into fermentation. Leave it alone for a few weeks. If it needs clearing before you bottle, do it then.

it is actually starting to turn from mud into very cloudy beer.
couldn't help myself, so i took a gravity reading/taste today. down to 1.020.

and absolutely foul. hopefully it's just nasty yeasties and whatnot. time will tell.

rye smash right? I love rye but not sure I could even go 100%

My American rye beer never cleared but I wanted to leave it cloudy. Didn't used whirlfloc and used Denny's Fav 50

quick update - took a sample today (i was intending to do a hydro reading, but my thief isn't holding liquid well for some reason...)
it tastes like beer!
it's still a little chewy, but now within a drinkable range.
tossed some polylcar in, gonna let it sit a while longer then into bottles it goes.

for those playing along at home -
the polyclar didn't do anthing at all.
racked and added isinglass and cold crashed with almost no change in clarity.

bottled ~a week ago, set for highish carbonation.

tried one this evening and it was actually pretty darn good. pretty fruity and a little spicy, but very smooth (and not jsut because it was flat )
i am going to try this brew again with some better water chemistry, a protein rest, and a higher gravity.

So I brewed another t batch of this yesterday, bumped the grain bill up to 9 lbs rye and the rice hulls up to a whopping 2 lbs. Went with a cooler style mash tun instead of biab. Did a decoction mash with a 35 minute protein rest and a 45 minute sacc rest.
Used a whirlfloc at 15 minutes, wort chiller got it to 80 in 8 minutes, whirlpooledand let it rest for 20 minutes.
Came out less muddy than last time, but the cold break wouldn't settle out. Put it in the fermenter anyways, aerated the hell out of it and pitched the yeast.
Left it on the counter for and hour or so and about 2 thirds of the break material started to settle and the rest started floating to the top.
Started showing signs of fermentation in less than 30 minutes, filled the coke bottle used as a blowoff with beer overnight.

Rye is crazy.



anyway. The big part I'm trying to overcome is the break material. Anything else I should try? The only thing I can really think of would be to go no-chill on it, but I don't have a cube. Otherwise I guess I'll just have to count on a huge fermenter loss on it. (The first batch lost 1 gallon out of 2.5 put in.)

I had a similar experience with my roggenbier 50/50 pils/rye experiment. So much break material. I didn't do a protein rest though. sucks that your protein rest doesn't solve the problem. sounds like maybe straining the break material post chilling and pre-pitching might be a way to go. I'd have to imagine that might be difficult to maintain sanitation. but then again you could always re-heat it the next day after straining to re-sterilize the wort.

or just increase your batch size. or brew at a higher gravity and ibu and dilute by 20% or so at packaging to make up for the expected loss.